Forums - Why is CVS2 Rugal so good? Show all 121 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Why is CVS2 Rugal so good? (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=48186) Posted by Spider-Dan on 12:03:2001 08:04 AM: Why is CVS2 Rugal so good? It appears that a Rugal player is going to finish very highly at NEC2 CVS2 tourney. So before we have the 4392849237 people that claim "I told you Rugal was good but nobody believed me!!!1!" please state exactly what he has that is so good. (preferably before you have a chance to cut-and-paste whatever is posted about how the Rugal player did so well) I would like to compare the responses to what that Rugal player was actually doing. Don't forget to include your groove of choice. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:03:2001 08:20 AM: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how People could make Rugal work in HIGH LEVEL TOURNEYS I mean I use him all the time and I get spanked by Bison and Hibiki (Sagat's not THAT MUCH of a problem once you get used to him IMO) and he's probably the only person in CvS2 who CAN'T DOMINATE A SPECIFIC OTHER CVS2 FIGHTER AS MUCH AS BISON OWNS BLANKA AND SUCH.. also he's susceptible to rushdowns.. The Big C-groove combos doesn't save him much because the opponent knows what to excpect and would likely NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKE in a high level match against a Rugal player, 90 percent combos are Hard to land.. No abusable moves.. Weak anti-air and such.. and HELL i think IMO he has to be a bottom tier (yes IMO somewhat even weaker than CvS1 Rugal) BUT.. HOW THE HELL ARE THESE TOURNEY GUYS, JD AND ULTIMA ABLE TO MAKE RUGAL WORK AT SUCH SUCH SUCH HIGH LEVELS?? AS IF HE WERE TOP TIER???? Based on how I get beaten down I have to wonder three things 1. Is this really a High level Tournament with Sagat's/Bison's and Blank's roaming over and a "mere" Rugal Makes a name for himself????... unlikely 2.THE MOST LIKELY.. Maybe these teams of Rugal, etc., and etc. always goes like this *Round 1:Fight:Rugal gets TOTALLY OWNED PERFECT KO,DOES NOTHING,SELLOUT,WASTE OF ROUND.. *Round 2:Fight:The remaining SAGAT player polishes off the entire team with ease... Unless anyone REALLY confirms that Rugal REALLY DOES WORK in such high level tourneys I'll go by this... 3. Another possibility: This is a High level tournament WITH ONLY KYOSUKES AND DANS (and other lower Tiers) AS OPPOSITION sorry for that.. I just can't see how People can make him work at tourneys AGAISNT BISONS AND SAGATS AND BLANKAS AND SHOTOS AND SUCH. Posted by IlluminaZero on 12:03:2001 08:46 AM: ^^ I hope you do get to say "I told you so" I am getting tired of hearing about Sagat and Blanka 24/7 Posted by Mummy-B on 12:03:2001 08:55 AM: Actually, I was kinda wondering the same thing, but I'll take my shot at it. First of all, it MUST have something to do with his ridiculous, near 90% combos. Crap, the C Groove and A Groove combos he has are sick as hell and not too diffucult to land. Second, I think it really has alot to with the fact that Rugal mixes up a really good offensive rush and a relatively good turtle game - not that the *player* consciously mixes it up, but mainly because Rugal can't do one or the other well enough to support himself, so you are kinda forced to mix it up if you want to win with him. from there I'm not sure, I don't even know if the second one is concrete. It seems to be that he gained more combo ability (slightly stepped down from CvS Pro, where he could almost literally juggle anything with a Genocide Heaven...) and that he doesn't have *quite as must lag* on his normals and such as he used to. Rugal is one of those people where you really have to *know* him, inside and out, before you can really start owning anybody with him... Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:03:2001 11:57 AM: err.. I guess capcom made him that way, but the thing is why do they have to change him.. I mean we got Sagat and Bison sure obviosly weakened from their world warrior evrsions (since every Sagat and Bison becomes playable since SF2: CE) and in their likeness They were strong to a point that sure they were weakened enough but STILL strong and IS familiar to he way they have always beeen known to play as.. REGARDLESS OF DAMAGE VARIATIONS Psycho crusher has always been the same, Head stomp is just as fast and I think priority was emasculated as well.. Knee press now knocks down Devil reverse changes animations and properties.. High and low Tiges are the same, come out fast, travel fast, and then recover fast (especially in ST) that it is known for Tiger uppercut just changes from One hit solid to multi hit intimidator back and forth.. but STILL good DP Tiger knee is the same unchanged useful in getting close. But In Rugal's case With all due respect to Capcom fans (i'm not going to bitch about 50 percent genocide cutters with SF2WW Dragon punch priority that knocks down) Rugal OUTSIDE OF HIS RIDICULOUS DAMAGE AND GAMEPLAY IN KOF IS PLAYABLE he's not like the "overpowered bosses" like Goenitz, Orochi, Krizalid and Zero that were DESIGNED to be NOT Playable EVEN in presentation.. Besides lessen Rugal 94/95 The REAL Rugal's damage facor and I won't think he's as much overpowered as some SNK fanatics would praise him to be (in 95 he CAN be owned by Kyo even if a Human controlled him) Let's look at this normals.. good range and priotity VS CvS normals.. Good range but not that a good priority and should only be used for "zoning" a category labeled to Rugal.. 6 normals doesn't cut it out as much as he should at least get the same respect in normals that I feel doesn't really overpower him in decreased damage level.. let's look at his special moves Reppuken: sure it recovers fast but STILL is susceptible to airborne assaults.. I mean EVEN if Rugal's Reppuken hits mid like a normal projectile and not low.. it wouldn't overpower rugal enough so that you could not get close to him. anyway even if it hits mid like Geese's Double reppuken property in CvS2 it still doesn't cover much space and the opponent can jump easilly even when waking up and this is very near.. I guess this is true to the toning down of general SNK ground scrolling projectiles (hich I realy have a comment against) syndrome of being hovered below But heck at least Rugal (or any ground fireballer) wouldn't get eaten alive by people like Bison, Blanka and Honda.. at least that's a "little" help in the line of defence.. besides even if Rugal is the only one to recieve such fireball property It hould be fitting for him since he is a boss.. much like ho Target properties make Geese counter supers etc.. besides in KOF it only travels and recovers fast but doesn't come out as quick.. and wit Rugal's HUGE target frame he should have this as a protection.. Kaiserwave: I theorized that maybe the basis of his "gets cancelled out by normal fireballs if you don't charge it" kaiserwave property is based on WOLFGANG KRAUSER'S early Fatal Fury Special version Kaiser wave that can be cancelled by a regular projectile.. in tis case Rugal CvS is better since he can chage his.. but the significance of a large space consumption wave shouldn't be just evident on something used for zoning.. it should be used for intimidation purposes as well THAT'S THE REASON why it is motioned a tad harder than a regular projectile and that's the reason he doesn't recover as fast... namely this should be a method used to scare people as much as Bison has the psycho crusher or sagat has the Tiger knee.. besides in KOF 98' Rugal's Kaiser wave was non erasable by normal projectiles BUT HE WAS STILL LOWER TIER what's my point.. Even if the Kaiser wave erases projectiles on a CvS engine/Capcom engine it should't be that a threat if you have rolling.. at least the ability to be able to erase normal fireballs is a little redeeming factor worth the F,HCF motion and drastic recovery.. sure you might say the charging up is used for mind games BUT HELL as I said thee were none of the Capcom Bosses qualities (Sagat, Bison, Vega) that were altered down as obvious as this to ajust their effectiveness.. so the Kaiser wave shouldn't have been toned down even if it's still useful or not.. besides the difficulty in getting around it like I said was based on the OLD KOF 94/95 engine.. with Rolls.. even a three hit wave at default input shouldn't be that much a problem.. comparing these with how Bison can just harass your guard meter all day with low shorts and forwards to knee presses again and again. Genocide Cutter: Rugal's MAIN AA.. sure you can say he has the standing roundhouse and the standing strong as AA's but then again Sagat HAS the standing Roundhouse, standig close Fierce, crouch Fierce WHILE his Tiger uppercut is still a good Anti-air parallel to how it was to SF.. not to mention he has loads of good normals to he point that having good air defense is ridiculous.. If you would say the GC is used to counterattack at limbs instead.. well ALL DP'S CAN DO THAT and STILL is be a good anti-air.. if The GC's weak priority was mostly made of for "combo into" purposes then by all mean the godpress does that job.. and even better with a level 3.. while sagat gets a free Tiger Uppercut for close combo, good anti-air, AND having those good normals. Sure someone can stae on THE GENOCIDE CUTTER HAD TO BE WEAKEN BECUSE IT TAKE TOO MUCH SPACE AIRBORNE AND A SLIGHT BOOST WOULD MAKE RUGAL MONSTROUS JUST LIKE GUILE'S FLASH KICK DONE EASIER but hey at least Capcom could have had made it trade.. and about Comparing it to the flash kick.. well don't you notice that as I said Rugal takes up large vertical space for hit detection so even a good DP with Rugal's size would be difficult considering the pressure of eing susceptible to being hit now and then while doing the motion for the kick??? so a good GC DEFINETELY will not overpower rugal ADF: since this is a capcom made move I will not complain about it, it's quite good actually. Godpress: HELLO.. another broken move... YOU HAVE BISON.. with a psycho crusher that at least does chip damage.. Travels faster.. lesser hit detection.. CAN ONLY BE PUNISHED by fierce attacks after Bison crosses them and is consistent enough to be good for partial mind games assuming you're risking a clean one-hit fierce retaliation which is part of your gameplan in your tendency to input the crusher. and we have the Godpress that *Doesn't come out as fast *has more "hit rugal out of" sprite detection *Doesn't bounce back so if you're blocked you'll eat a cobo WHICH IS WORSE THAN A FIERCE my point here is think Yuri.. her charging slap move bounces back if blocked.. AND THIS MOVE DOESN'T MAKE YURI OVERPOWERED and now we have RUGAL someone who's BIGGER and consumes more room for getting hit AND a charge move that doesn't bounce back since the godpress and Yuri's charge move was similar in nature.. of course the godpress cn be comboed into the G-heaven but in that sense Rugal won't always have a super because of the groove differences.. and this makes rugal very dependent enough on a method he can't abuse.. besides jumping back doesn't make the godpress cheap.. as Rugal can still be hit while going back or can be DP'ed while the opponent sees Rugal charging at him.. At least this is better than being open for any combo[/b[]. Dark Barrier: actually all I ask for this move is for reflection of supers.. like it did in [b]Buktooth88's last BETA test report hich is obviouly removed.. anyway I wouldn't change much about this given that Rugal had retained his Bossly qualities as reflectors are not that much a big on impact on SF as it is to KOF as compared to how his other moves are made structurally similar What Capcom made Rugal into in some cases as eported especially here in this thread and various tournaments.. Rugal is essentially Superb and is even considered Tier 2 or close to that.. But conomically in a world where "the harder to play the weaker" practicality sense Rugal ranks low.. Frankly I'm getting worried that the Fake chi's (Someone anonymous) prediction of Rugal might be close to being (if not) True at all that Rugal despite his emasculations.. posseses the biggest weaknesses a Fighter could have.. this makes him worse than a double edged sword as you have to manage to work Rugal into a limited space.. and now I wonder that maybe if other characters were mastered as hard as that Rugal player in the stated tournament then Rugal would be a loser.. I hope not but Why does Capcom have to limit Rugal to one category.. it's either abusing something (CvS1) or depending on something (CvSpro,2) instead of making him simply stable and unconditional Rugal in KOF let's say 94/95 with weakened damage. THEY WOULD DEFINETELY BE NOT UNBEATABLE maybe still strong But in THAT RESPECT Just as strong as how Sagat and Bison ares strong in an SF game.. and in this case CvS.. besides given the groove options even a KOF 94 Rugal won't be overpowered.. see my point.. at least Rugal wouldn't be so shallow and limited no matter how good he is in CvS2.. JD (Judgement Day) inspires me to use Rugal as he's one of the better Half CvS2 cast but in that respect Many other fighters get more and they weren't limited I really would like to know what you think of my comments.. Mummy-B[/n], [b]Buktooth, JD and Ultima specifically. Posted by Saqs on 12:03:2001 11:59 AM: No way he's good. The top tier is set in stone!!!!!! Posted by pulsr on 12:03:2001 01:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 err.. I guess capcom made him that way, but the thing is why do they have to change him.. I mean we got Sagat and Bison sure obviosly weakened from their world warrior evrsions (since every Sagat and Bison becomes playable since SF2: CE) and in their likeness They were strong to a point that sure they were weakened enough but STILL strong and IS familiar to he way they have always beeen known to play as.. REGARDLESS OF DAMAGE VARIATIONS Psycho crusher has always been the same, Head stomp is just as fast and I think priority was emasculated as well.. Knee press now knocks down Devil reverse changes animations and properties.. High and low Tiges are the same, come out fast, travel fast, and then recover fast (especially in ST) that it is known for Tiger uppercut just changes from One hit solid to multi hit intimidator back and forth.. but STILL good DP Tiger knee is the same unchanged useful in getting close. But In Rugal's case With all due respect to Capcom fans (i'm not going to bitch about 50 percent genocide cutters with SF2WW Dragon punch priority that knocks down) Rugal OUTSIDE OF HIS RIDICULOUS DAMAGE AND GAMEPLAY IN KOF IS PLAYABLE he's not like the "overpowered bosses" like Goenitz, Orochi, Krizalid and Zero that were DESIGNED to be NOT Playable EVEN in presentation.. Besides lessen Rugal 94/95 The REAL Rugal's damage facor and I won't think he's as much overpowered as some SNK fanatics would praise him to be (in 95 he CAN be owned by Kyo even if a Human controlled him) Let's look at this normals.. good range and priotity VS CvS normals.. Good range but not that a good priority and should only be used for "zoning" a category labeled to Rugal.. 6 normals doesn't cut it out as much as he should at least get the same respect in normals that I feel doesn't really overpower him in decreased damage level.. let's look at his special moves Reppuken: sure it recovers fast but STILL is susceptible to airborne assaults.. I mean EVEN if Rugal's Reppuken hits mid like a normal projectile and not low.. it wouldn't overpower rugal enough so that you could not get close to him. anyway even if it hits mid like Geese's Double reppuken property in CvS2 it still doesn't cover much space and the opponent can jump easilly even when waking up and this is very near.. I guess this is true to the toning down of general SNK ground scrolling projectiles (hich I realy have a comment against) syndrome of being hovered below But heck at least Rugal (or any ground fireballer) wouldn't get eaten alive by people like Bison, Blanka and Honda.. at least that's a "little" help in the line of defence.. besides even if Rugal is the only one to recieve such fireball property It hould be fitting for him since he is a boss.. much like ho Target properties make Geese counter supers etc.. besides in KOF it only travels and recovers fast but doesn't come out as quick.. and wit Rugal's HUGE target frame he should have this as a protection.. Kaiserwave: I theorized that maybe the basis of his "gets cancelled out by normal fireballs if you don't charge it" kaiserwave property is based on WOLFGANG KRAUSER'S early Fatal Fury Special version Kaiser wave that can be cancelled by a regular projectile.. in tis case Rugal CvS is better since he can chage his.. but the significance of a large space consumption wave shouldn't be just evident on something used for zoning.. it should be used for intimidation purposes as well THAT'S THE REASON why it is motioned a tad harder than a regular projectile and that's the reason he doesn't recover as fast... namely this should be a method used to scare people as much as Bison has the psycho crusher or sagat has the Tiger knee.. besides in KOF 98' Rugal's Kaiser wave was non erasable by normal projectiles BUT HE WAS STILL LOWER TIER what's my point.. Even if the Kaiser wave erases projectiles on a CvS engine/Capcom engine it should't be that a threat if you have rolling.. at least the ability to be able to erase normal fireballs is a little redeeming factor worth the F,HCF motion and drastic recovery.. sure you might say the charging up is used for mind games BUT HELL as I said thee were none of the Capcom Bosses qualities (Sagat, Bison, Vega) that were altered down as obvious as this to ajust their effectiveness.. so the Kaiser wave shouldn't have been toned down even if it's still useful or not.. besides the difficulty in getting around it like I said was based on the OLD KOF 94/95 engine.. with Rolls.. even a three hit wave at default input shouldn't be that much a problem.. comparing these with how Bison can just harass your guard meter all day with low shorts and forwards to knee presses again and again. Genocide Cutter: Rugal's MAIN AA.. sure you can say he has the standing roundhouse and the standing strong as AA's but then again Sagat HAS the standing Roundhouse, standig close Fierce, crouch Fierce WHILE his Tiger uppercut is still a good Anti-air parallel to how it was to SF.. not to mention he has loads of good normals to he point that having good air defense is ridiculous.. If you would say the GC is used to counterattack at limbs instead.. well ALL DP'S CAN DO THAT and STILL is be a good anti-air.. if The GC's weak priority was mostly made of for "combo into" purposes then by all mean the godpress does that job.. and even better with a level 3.. while sagat gets a free Tiger Uppercut for close combo, good anti-air, AND having those good normals. Sure someone can stae on THE GENOCIDE CUTTER HAD TO BE WEAKEN BECUSE IT TAKE TOO MUCH SPACE AIRBORNE AND A SLIGHT BOOST WOULD MAKE RUGAL MONSTROUS JUST LIKE GUILE'S FLASH KICK DONE EASIER but hey at least Capcom could have had made it trade.. and about Comparing it to the flash kick.. well don't you notice that as I said Rugal takes up large vertical space for hit detection so even a good DP with Rugal's size would be difficult considering the pressure of eing susceptible to being hit now and then while doing the motion for the kick??? so a good GC DEFINETELY will not overpower rugal ADF: since this is a capcom made move I will not complain about it, it's quite good actually. Godpress: HELLO.. another broken move... YOU HAVE BISON.. with a psycho crusher that at least does chip damage.. Travels faster.. lesser hit detection.. CAN ONLY BE PUNISHED by fierce attacks after Bison crosses them and is consistent enough to be good for partial mind games assuming you're risking a clean one-hit fierce retaliation which is part of your gameplan in your tendency to input the crusher. and we have the Godpress that *Doesn't come out as fast *has more "hit rugal out of" sprite detection *Doesn't bounce back so if you're blocked you'll eat a cobo WHICH IS WORSE THAN A FIERCE my point here is think Yuri.. her charging slap move bounces back if blocked.. AND THIS MOVE DOESN'T MAKE YURI OVERPOWERED and now we have RUGAL someone who's BIGGER and consumes more room for getting hit AND a charge move that doesn't bounce back since the godpress and Yuri's charge move was similar in nature.. of course the godpress cn be comboed into the G-heaven but in that sense Rugal won't always have a super because of the groove differences.. and this makes rugal very dependent enough on a method he can't abuse.. besides jumping back doesn't make the godpress cheap.. as Rugal can still be hit while going back or can be DP'ed while the opponent sees Rugal charging at him.. At least this is better than being open for any combo[/b[]. Dark Barrier: actually all I ask for this move is for reflection of supers.. like it did in [b]Buktooth88's last BETA test report hich is obviouly removed.. anyway I wouldn't change much about this given that Rugal had retained his Bossly qualities as reflectors are not that much a big on impact on SF as it is to KOF as compared to how his other moves are made structurally similar What Capcom made Rugal into in some cases as eported especially here in this thread and various tournaments.. Rugal is essentially Superb and is even considered Tier 2 or close to that.. But conomically in a world where "the harder to play the weaker" practicality sense Rugal ranks low.. Frankly I'm getting worried that the Fake chi's (Someone anonymous) prediction of Rugal might be close to being (if not) True at all that Rugal despite his emasculations.. posseses the biggest weaknesses a Fighter could have.. this makes him worse than a double edged sword as you have to manage to work Rugal into a limited space.. and now I wonder that maybe if other characters were mastered as hard as that Rugal player in the stated tournament then Rugal would be a loser.. I hope not but Why does Capcom have to limit Rugal to one category.. it's either abusing something (CvS1) or depending on something (CvSpro,2) instead of making him simply stable and unconditional Rugal in KOF let's say 94/95 with weakened damage. THEY WOULD DEFINETELY BE NOT UNBEATABLE maybe still strong But in THAT RESPECT Just as strong as how Sagat and Bison ares strong in an SF game.. and in this case CvS.. besides given the groove options even a KOF 94 Rugal won't be overpowered.. see my point.. at least Rugal wouldn't be so shallow and limited no matter how good he is in CvS2.. JD (Judgement Day) inspires me to use Rugal as he's one of the better Half CvS2 cast but in that respect Many other fighters get more and they weren't limited I really would like to know what you think of my comments.. Mummy-B[/n], [b]Buktooth, JD and Ultima specifically. hehe 10 page esssay sayin rugal sucks hehe, yeah i can barely even get a jab combo outta this guy Posted by HitmanStriker on 12:03:2001 03:46 PM: Umm.... Rugal does not suck. His god press super is possibly the most vicious in the game. Posted by StiltMan on 12:03:2001 07:05 PM: Well, part one of how Rugal would be good is obviously the amount of damage he can land if he gets one good opening. If somebody whiffs a DP, there's 70-80% damage. If somebody lets you get a good jump in, there's 90% damage. If you can manage to do an anti-air CC and get them into the normal CC from it, there's probably 70% damage. His standing roundhouse isn't a bad anti-air, although I don't know how it measures up to stuff like Blanka and the like. His projectiles aren't just great but he's got fairly good recover on them, plus he's got some decent guard crushing power on them. In the end, I suspect it's mostly about the big combos, making Rugal something akin to Cable in MvC2 where he has decent tools overall and one huge damaging move that can break the game wide open if he just gets that opportunity to land it. If you could find a way to land the CC as an AA or as a counterhit, Rugal would be very, very nasty. Posted by threesixtee on 12:03:2001 09:33 PM: well said stilt. Posted by cragum on 12:04:2001 12:54 AM: Rugal's probably good because of all the stuff you've said saying he sucks. Everybody who's read this(and the other anti-rugal threads) probably underestimates Rugal's usefulness and was probably surprised by someone skilled at using him. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:04:2001 12:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by pulsr hehe 10 page esssay sayin rugal sucks hehe, yeah i can barely even get a jab combo outta this guy well NO I didn't say he sucks if you read it right I was comparing CvS Rugal with KOF Rugal's well-framed non-overpowered version at it's best.. I still think Rugal is better than Geese and Yamazaki though. Posted by daher1234 on 12:04:2001 06:30 AM: Holy shit, man. You need to calm down. Every time he's been mentioned in a thread you post the same damn rant. Why is it that a person so obviously obsessed with Rugal such as yourself always needs to make him seem "weak" when compared to certain Capcom bosses? Then, you go on about how he was so much better in some old KOF games. What the hell does it matter if he was so awesome in another game when in this one he's obviously good? CvS2 is not KOF 94/95 is not A3 is not ST is not MvsC2, ect, ect... So what if he's not the best character in the game? Neither is Ryu, Ken, Sakura or Athena or several other characters but they still win tournaments and guess what, so did Rugal. Just be happy he isn't Kyosuke. Posted by GalzPanic on 12:04:2001 06:30 AM: I've been using Rugal since day 1(KOF 95). Rugal is on my main team in CvS2, along with Mai and (character TBA). I'll tell you what is good about Rugal in CVS2. Notice that I didn't say "I'll tell you why Rugal is good" because IMO he's still near the bottom of the bosses. Like Stiltman said his main power is his high damaging combos. Rugal is a high damage character, so anything meaningful you can land will take a chunk of life. Basically: Godpress connects = Free Genocide Heaven or Free CC Dark smash connects = Free Genocide Heaven (corner) or Free CC His supers are easily comboable from normals also. He has 2 great anti-airs: stand roundhouse and stand strong. If one doesn't work, the other should. Genocide cutter is not a very good anti-air. Most of the time it trades or gets stuffed. Rugal's throws also do massive damage. A good Rugal will throw throw throw. I use A-Groove Rugal. The other grooves are also pretty potent, but Rugal's CC has so many easy setups. He also has anti-air CC's. Buk mentioned that you can activate, low fierce-> god press. My AA CC is activate, roundhouse Genocide cutter, cancel quickly into fierce god press. Supposedly the NEC winner used A-groove Rugal. I'm so happy! So that's it. Rugal has a lot of good things going for him, but he's definitely not the best. You still have to work pretty hard to beat the top tier characters. People will eventually realize this and go back to using Blanka or Sagat. Posted by Peachy on 12:04:2001 07:31 AM: quote: Posted by Rugal 3:16 90 percent combos are Hard to land.. No abusable moves.. Don't know if you guys know this or if anyone has mentioned it yet but I'll make it nice and bold so everyone can see. You can cancel BOTH fierce punch and S/C Medium kick into the godpress, which leads to his really high damage combos. How hard is it to land one of the 3? I think crouching medium kick is the easiest to land, cause it's pretty fast. Heck you can even cross up then do, so 5 ways to set up the combos. (that's including starting it off with the godpress but who would throw that out by it self? ) Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:04:2001 09:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by daher1234 Holy shit, man. You need to calm down. Every time he's been mentioned in a thread you post the same damn rant. Why is it that a person so obviously obsessed with Rugal such as yourself always needs to make him seem "weak" when compared to certain Capcom bosses? Then, you go on about how he was so much better in some old KOF games. What the hell does it matter if he was so awesome in another game when in this one he's obviously good? CvS2 is not KOF 94/95 is not A3 is not ST is not MvsC2, ect, ect... So what if he's not the best character in the game? Neither is Ryu, Ken, Sakura or Athena or several other characters but they still win tournaments and guess what, so did Rugal. Just be happy he isn't Kyosuke. I'm sorry but it's just that people's claim that he is the weakest REALLY ticks me off and I seem to agree on it. I mean no other fighter can be that susceptible to Rushdown and Turtle in CvS2 more than Rugal does.. Sure he may be good BUT I'M JUST SICK of people saying "hey boy wanna pick Rugal? Pick sagat instead" WTF!! and well not that I would want to degrade anyone or anything But if you read my post you'll see that I see no reason why Rugal's special moves be weakened as if he would be overpowered when he's even at 94 level., HELL NO 94 Rugal (weakened damage and slowed down speed) assuming his moves priorities are intact would at least be as Good as Sagat or Bison wihout having some schmuck on the arcs telling you to pick them instead.. I'm just stating that EVEN IF HE IS GOOD he can be better.. that's all no harm meant.. besides In the first place all I'm asking was how in the world were people able to make him work in SUCH HIGH LEVEL tourneys wherein he is not overshadowed that puzzles me.. (obviously I assume of course that high levels would have good Bisons and Sagats roaming around now and then) Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:04:2001 09:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by Peachy Don't know if you guys know this or if anyone has mentioned it yet but I'll make it nice and bold so everyone can see. You can cancel BOTH fierce punch and S/C Medium kick into the godpress, which leads to his really high damage combos. How hard is it to land one of the 3? I think crouching medium kick is the easiest to land, cause it's pretty fast. Heck you can even cross up then do, so 5 ways to set up the combos. (that's including starting it off with the godpress but who would throw that out by it self? ) Rugal has a cross-up? the only SNK boss I know with one is Geese.. oh you must mean the air Jab.. well fine it does have some cross-up capability but in a VERY little amount that's unpractical enough to label Rugal without a cross-up. Posted by Mummy-B on 12:04:2001 12:36 PM: Okay, after checking some of this stuff out, this is my conclusion. Rugal is just good because he can kick your ass in one merciless blow. The thing about him is, he's solid enough to hold his own while you're waiting for that one time you can get in and kick ass. Essentially, once Rugal gets a maximum gauge, he's like a Blanka with Level 3 meter, but even worse, because there's more ways for him to destroy you with. Even if you leave out the first few hits and just land a single God Press, you still do at LEAST 70%+ damage on an even Ratio, and that's with making shortcuts on the combo. Whenever you land a jumping fierce, a cross up lp, or you're able to buffer a crouch fierce, or they make an opening punishable with a God Press, it's like Ryu in CvS1 landing a cross up fk -> c.lk x3 -> c.fk XX Shin Shoryuken - it's THAT game breaking. And, unlike landing a Shun Goku Satsu (Raging Demon) which is equally as game breaking, Rugal landing that ridiculous damage combo is much more a possibility than even Morrigan's j.fp -> cartwheel fk -> Darkness Illusion. Not only that, Rugal's combo does more damage (I used Morrigan as an example because she has a Raging Demon move that is vastly superior to Gouki's or Evil Ryu, IMO, because of it's ability to be comboed into and it just has much more utility). So for the same amount of meter, Rugal has more options and possibility to land an average 80% combo, where a Level 3-exclusive Raging Demon move that has combo properties only does something like 60-70% only IF you get all the hits in before it (if you just connect it, I believe it does roughly 60-65% damage on an even Ratio, I'm just going by experience here). For all practical purposes, Rugal has a "command Raging Demon." Where the typical Raging Demon just floats and does all the hits automatically, you can control Rugal's hits to do just as much or more damage than an actual Raging Demon, and since it's "command," you can set it up and modify it however you please. It's ridiculous. On top of all of this, I've previously stated that Rugal is a relatively solid character ANYWAY. Even if you're expert with him, you don't even NEED the combos to win against alot of characters. For all the ones that you can't, you just build meter and wait for that one opening that eradicates them. He's scary as hell. And that's all I have to say about that. Posted by threesixtee on 12:04:2001 04:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 Rugal has a cross-up? the only SNK boss I know with one is Geese.. oh you must mean the air Jab.. well fine it does have some cross-up capability but in a VERY little amount that's unpractical enough to label Rugal without a cross-up. I'm pretty sure his j mk and sometimes hk cross up... at least on certain characters. Posted by Kamui on 12:04:2001 04:51 PM: Actually, jumping forward IS a full blown cross up. It works fairly well...The only problem with him even having it is that there arent any good set ups to land one. His best combos lead them into the corner, his genocide cutter throws them out to far away from you, the same goes for his throws...His only decent set up seems to be low roundhouse... Posted by Hannibal Smith on 12:04:2001 06:49 PM: When will you idiots learn? There is no such thing as good characters, only good players! Rugal is only as good as the person using him. If you ever play as Rugal, you will find that his combos are not as easy as they seem. Posted by CliffDog on 12:04:2001 07:16 PM: Rugal DOES have a cross up, jmk...it works fairly well...though Rugal shoudln't really do too much offense anyways. As for cmk, smk and close shp comboing into godpress, well, that's not as good as it sounds, and here's why: I'm not sure abuot other people, but I, for one, can NOT execute that combo to punish blocked moves (try blocking, say, Kyo's hcb+k, then doing cmk to godpress...it shoudl be possible but I can't get it). The reason this is so hard is because you have to start the whole combo from holding back for the block, then pressing cmk...you CAN'T buffer it by pushing mk when you get to the d part of the hcb...that is too slow to hit Kyo and he can block it. So, that combo can not be used to punish MOST moves (you can still use it to punish certain moves like DP's, since you don't have to be blockign while theya re in the air). SO...that means the combo can not be used as a punisher...but it CAN still be used offensively, by pushing mk when you get to the d part of the hcb. WELL, that does NOT work all that well, and here's why: you don't know if the cmk will connect. With a PUNISHER combo, you always know it will connect, so you woudl always land the godpress, but here, there's no way to tell if your cmk will hit or get blocked and, if it gets blocked...well, then your godpress gets blocked...and then we all know what happens there. If Godpress was actualyl safe, I think Rugal would be WAY too powerful (despite what Rugal3:16 has to say), and it's basically because of his cmk>god press combo...it woudl be like the shoto's TOTALLY abusable, use ALL THE TIME, cmk>fireball, but it would do 75% damage...just keep tossing tit out and it will hit eventually and then you get 75% damage. One note however...I have found that you CAN use the SUPER version of his godpress after blocking, then cmk...I think because it lets you cancel into it later...while still hard, this Is a feasible punisher and it IS safe, since you know your opponent won't e able to block a punisher combo. Posted by StiltMan on 12:04:2001 07:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hannibal Smith When will you idiots learn? There is no such thing as good characters, only good players! Rugal is only as good as the person using him. If you ever play as Rugal, you will find that his combos are not as easy as they seem. You've got something on your shirt... oh, it's a "scrub" label. Never mind, leave it there... On a more serious note... I did a little tinkering with the CC. If you throw the godpress straight off the activation it's got a fair amount of invincibility. I went through a few projectiles with it when I timed it right and you can also use it against jump-ins fairly well, too. It does a fair amount less damage this way than if you can manage to get the godpress to hit before the CC is activated (e.g. off a whiffed DP move), but even then you're still looking at approximately 7000 points or close to it, depending on how far the godpress has to travel across the screen before it slams them into the corner -- if you're closer to the corner to begin with, you'll burn less of the meter on that initial carry and can get in more hits after the initial slam. Unless the Gigantic Pressure goes through projectiles and can be used as an AA (I haven't tested it, but I doubt it's as good as the CC) I'm leaning towards A groove being better for Rugal than C at the moment. The CC just gives a lot more opportunities to knock someone into next week. Posted by bison812 on 12:04:2001 07:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by GalzPanic I've been using Rugal since day 1(KOF 95). Rugal is on my main team in CvS2, along with Mai and (character TBA). I'll tell you what is good about Rugal in CVS2. Notice that I didn't say "I'll tell you why Rugal is good" because IMO he's still near the bottom of the bosses. Like Stiltman said his main power is his high damaging combos. Rugal is a high damage character, so anything meaningful you can land will take a chunk of life. Basically: Godpress connects = Free Genocide Heaven or Free CC Dark smash connects = Free Genocide Heaven (corner) or Free CC His supers are easily comboable from normals also. He has 2 great anti-airs: stand roundhouse and stand strong. If one doesn't work, the other should. Genocide cutter is not a very good anti-air. Most of the time it trades or gets stuffed. Rugal's throws also do massive damage. A good Rugal will throw throw throw. I use A-Groove Rugal. The other grooves are also pretty potent, but Rugal's CC has so many easy setups. He also has anti-air CC's. Buk mentioned that you can activate, low fierce-> god press. My AA CC is activate, roundhouse Genocide cutter, cancel quickly into fierce god press. Supposedly the NEC winner used A-groove Rugal. I'm so happy! So that's it. Rugal has a lot of good things going for him, but he's definitely not the best. You still have to work pretty hard to beat the top tier characters. People will eventually realize this and go back to using Blanka or Sagat. Ive heard so much about Rugal and the stuff you and stilman. What are some good pokes with him so far it looks like A grove Rugal is the best to use but what else do you suggest. Posted by Hannibal Smith on 12:04:2001 07:58 PM: Rugal works good in C N K. For one thing Rugal needs to run. Throw a Reppu'ken and chase after it when someone is recovering. You will either get chip damage or destroy them as they try to [ jump / roll / dodge / parry / just defend ]. Rugal's air fireballs are really punishable now, and are only used for rushdown tactics. If you play against a P or K groove, only use Dark Smash if you have a super. When they perry the Dark Smash, throw a Genocide Heaven out. If you use Rugal in C groove, after a lvl 2 Gigantic Pressure, you get a free God Press grab at the end. However, if you use Rugal in C Groove he is pitifull in damage and mobility aspects. N Groove adds run and short jump, not mention the capability of huge damaging combos. This combo is brutal.. j.HK,s.HP,gcf+hcb+p[lvl3],n,gcf+gcf+k[lvl1] The most important thing with Rugal to remember is when to use the Genocide Heaven. You have to get ALL 3 hits of the lvl 1 super to hit off of a God Press, Vector Shield, or Dark Smash. K GROOVE Rugal is scary, jd any ground move to a guaranteed any punch or kick to God Press to super if you have one. If you have RAGE with K Rugal don't waste on a Genocide Heaven Combo unless from the ground with shorts, you just waste hits and RAGE damage otherwise. As for A Rugal, I wouldn't waste my time. He doesn't have good custom combos. Custom Combos are only good for getting the most hits in during the time frame, leave that to US Bison and the others. N level 1 supers and A level 1 supers hurt the same, why use dash instead of run and have no small jump or level 3? Posted by daher1234 on 12:04:2001 08:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 I'm sorry but it's just that people's claim that he is the weakest REALLY ticks me off and I seem to agree on it. I mean no other fighter can be that susceptible to Rushdown and Turtle in CvS2 more than Rugal does.. Sure he may be good BUT I'M JUST SICK of people saying "hey boy wanna pick Rugal? Pick sagat instead" WTF!! and well not that I would want to degrade anyone or anything But if you read my post you'll see that I see no reason why Rugal's special moves be weakened as if he would be overpowered when he's even at 94 level., HELL NO 94 Rugal (weakened damage and slowed down speed) assuming his moves priorities are intact would at least be as Good as Sagat or Bison wihout having some schmuck on the arcs telling you to pick them instead.. I'm just stating that EVEN IF HE IS GOOD he can be better.. that's all no harm meant.. besides In the first place all I'm asking was how in the world were people able to make him work in SUCH HIGH LEVEL tourneys wherein he is not overshadowed that puzzles me.. (obviously I assume of course that high levels would have good Bisons and Sagats roaming around now and then) Tell those idiots to fuck off. You can pick whoever the hell you want to. If you're losing with Rugal, just re-learn how to play with him. You may be trying to use him like you did in another game and are losing because of that. It happens to a lot of people. Posted by Hannibal Smith on 12:04:2001 08:08 PM: quote: I'm not sure abuot other people, but I, for one, can NOT execute that combo to punish blocked moves (try blocking, say, Kyo's hcb+k, then doing cmk to godpress...it shoudl be possible but I can't get it). The reason this is so hard is because you have to start the whole combo from holding back for the block, then pressing cmk...you CAN'T buffer it by pushing mk when you get to the d part of the hcb...that is too slow to hit Kyo and he can block it. So, that combo can not be used to punish MOST moves (you can still use it to punish certain moves like DP's, since you don't have to be blockign while theya re in the air). When you block a move standing, you can do and punch or kick into his God Press. You have to do the hcb very fast. Here's my strategy. Move Blocked. Press any button (prefer MK or MP). Perform HCB. Hit HP. Those four steps should be performed in less than a second. [EDIT] KOF94 Rugal was ok. KOF98 O.Rugal was unbeatable. However, KOF Sucks and is old. Drop the whole KOF topic because this is a whole new and different game. Just because you use Rugal (who is a decent character) doesn't mean you're going to be a decent player. That goes for all characters and all fighting games. You have to find who [which character] is going to work for you the best, not who [which character] can I make work for me. Posted by Mummy-B on 12:05:2001 12:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hannibal Smith Rugal works good in C N K. For one thing Rugal needs to run. Throw a Reppu'ken and chase after it when someone is recovering. You will either get chip damage or destroy them as they try to [ jump / roll / dodge / parry / just defend ]. Rugal's air fireballs are really punishable now, and are only used for rushdown tactics. If you play against a P or K groove, only use Dark Smash if you have a super. When they perry the Dark Smash, throw a Genocide Heaven out. If you use Rugal in C groove, after a lvl 2 Gigantic Pressure, you get a free God Press grab at the end. However, if you use Rugal in C Groove he is pitifull in damage and mobility aspects. N Groove adds run and short jump, not mention the capability of huge damaging combos. This combo is brutal.. j.HK,s.HP,gcf+hcb+p[lvl3],n,gcf+gcf+k[lvl1] The most important thing with Rugal to remember is when to use the Genocide Heaven. You have to get ALL 3 hits of the lvl 1 super to hit off of a God Press, Vector Shield, or Dark Smash. K GROOVE Rugal is scary, jd any ground move to a guaranteed any punch or kick to God Press to super if you have one. If you have RAGE with K Rugal don't waste on a Genocide Heaven Combo unless from the ground with shorts, you just waste hits and RAGE damage otherwise. As for A Rugal, I wouldn't waste my time. He doesn't have good custom combos. Custom Combos are only good for getting the most hits in during the time frame, leave that to US Bison and the others. N level 1 supers and A level 1 supers hurt the same, why use dash instead of run and have no small jump or level 3? Are you out of your mind? Rugal has a RIDICULOUS A-Groove CC: Damage: 7920 mid-air, QCT+jab, activate CC, c.fierce, HCB+fierce, [j.roundhouse x2], [j.roundhouse x2, j.fierce], [j.fierce x3] x2, QCT-HCB+P And if you think that's not practical because of starting it with Air Dark Smasher, you can do this one, which is WORSE: Damage: 9256 c.forward, HCB+fierce, activate CC, [j.roundhouse x2], [j.roundhouse x2, j.fierce], [j.fierce x3, QCT+jab], [j.jab x3] x2, QCT-HCB+P On top of that, if you want a near 90% C Groove super cancel, you just do this: j.fp -> c.fp XX God Press -> Level 2 Genocide Heaven [super cancel] Air Dark Smasher -> Level 1 Genocide Heaven The combo you listed for N Groove is very close to the SNK Groove combo you would do with him in CvS1. Typically, Rugal isn't too oriented toward rushdown with consistency anyway, so mobility is usually not that big of an issue, he can move himself pretty easily. He's mainly about controlling the pace of the match with a little rushing here and there and landing an insanely damaging combo, because there's like fifty ways to land them. Posted by Hannibal Smith on 12:05:2001 02:15 AM: quote: Are you out of your mind? Rugal has a RIDICULOUS A-Groove CC: Damage: 7920 mid-air, QCT+jab, activate CC, c.fierce, HCB+fierce, [j.roundhouse x2], [j.roundhouse x2, j.fierce], [j.fierce x3] x2, QCT-HCB+P And if you think that's not practical because of starting it with Air Dark Smasher, you can do this one, which is WORSE: Damage: 9256 c.forward, HCB+fierce, activate CC, [j.roundhouse x2], [j.roundhouse x2, j.fierce], [j.fierce x3, QCT+jab], [j.jab x3] x2, QCT-HCB+P On top of that, if you want a near 90% C Groove super cancel, you just do this: The N Groove.. A simple Reppuken to God Press to level 3 Genocide Heaven = 8340 A simple level 3 Gigantic Pressure to level 1 Genocide Heaven = 9400 j.HK to level 3 Gigantic Pressure to level 1 Genocide Heaven = 10940 insert other hits for more damage Posted by Blacknoah on 12:05:2001 02:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 Reppuken: sure it recovers fast but STILL is susceptible to airborne assaults.. I mean EVEN if Rugal's Reppuken hits mid like a normal projectile and not low.. it wouldn't overpower rugal enough so that you could not get close to him. anyway even if it hits mid like Geese's Double reppuken property in CvS2 it still doesn't cover much space and the opponent can jump easilly even when waking up and this is very near.. I guess this is true to the toning down of general SNK ground scrolling projectiles (hich I realy have a comment against) syndrome of being hovered below But heck at least Rugal (or any ground fireballer) wouldn't get eaten alive by people like Bison, Blanka and Honda.. at least that's a "little" help in the line of defence.. besides even if Rugal is the only one to recieve such fireball property It hould be fitting for him since he is a boss.. much like ho Target properties make Geese counter supers etc.. besides in KOF it only travels and recovers fast but doesn't come out as quick.. and wit Rugal's HUGE target frame he should have this as a protection.. Then that would require all the characters with streaking fireballs to get the same properties, thus making the double reppuken not stand out, and making characters like Bison and Blanka incapacitated against all of these characters, If there would be a complaint I guess you have to whine about toning down those charging moves that fly through low projectiles because trust me it will be a big impact on gameplay. quote: [/b] Kaiserwave: I theorized that maybe the basis of his "gets cancelled out by normal fireballs if you don't charge it" kaiserwave property is based on WOLFGANG KRAUSER'S early Fatal Fury Special version Kaiser wave that can be cancelled by a regular projectile.. in tis case Rugal CvS is better since he can chage his.. but the significance of a large space consumption wave shouldn't be just evident on something used for zoning.. it should be used for intimidation purposes as well THAT'S THE REASON why it is motioned a tad harder than a regular projectile and that's the reason he doesn't recover as fast... namely this should be a method used to scare people as much as Bison has the psycho crusher or sagat has the Tiger knee.. besides in KOF 98' Rugal's Kaiser wave was non erasable by normal projectiles BUT HE WAS STILL LOWER TIER what's my point.. Even if the Kaiser wave erases projectiles on a CvS engine/Capcom engine it should't be that a threat if you have rolling.. at least the ability to be able to erase normal fireballs is a little redeeming factor worth the F,HCF motion and drastic recovery.. sure you might say the charging up is used for mind games BUT HELL as I said thee were none of the Capcom Bosses qualities (Sagat, Bison, Vega) that were altered down as obvious as this to ajust their effectiveness.. so the Kaiser wave shouldn't have been toned down even if it's still useful or not.. besides the difficulty in getting around it like I said was based on the OLD KOF 94/95 engine.. with Rolls.. even a three hit wave at default input shouldn't be that much a problem.. comparing these with how Bison can just harass your guard meter all day with low shorts and forwards to knee presses again and again.[/b] Hmmm not overpowered? let's see you get an instant "projectile" that has huge size, chargeable, and can be held up and you want have the default one a multi-hit? that would be like unfair even if you said you can roll through it and such I think it would be much worse than Sagat throwing variation fireballs all day since you can just play gay and turtle up behind the move. even if this doesn't do KOF Kaiser wave Damage the erasing projectiles property you're asking for would be WAY too much. don't whine about King or Joe's double projectiles since those either doesn't come out as fast or doesn't cover up much space. Just think that his Reppuken and kaiser wave are like Sagat's or Krauser's High/low Tiger shots/Blitz balls. Of course the lack of being able to easilly buffer it from a normal move in casual level is compensated by the fact that it can be held quote: Genocide Cutter: Rugal's MAIN AA.. sure you can say he has the standing roundhouse and the standing strong as AA's but then again Sagat HAS the standing Roundhouse, standig close Fierce, crouch Fierce WHILE his Tiger uppercut is still a good Anti-air parallel to how it was to SF.. not to mention he has loads of good normals to he point that having good air defense is ridiculous.. If you would say the GC is used to counterattack at limbs instead.. well ALL DP'S CAN DO THAT and STILL is be a good anti-air.. if The GC's weak priority was mostly made of for "combo into" purposes then by all mean the godpress does that job.. and even better with a level 3.. while sagat gets a free Tiger Uppercut for close combo, good anti-air, AND having those good normals. Sure someone can stae on THE GENOCIDE CUTTER HAD TO BE WEAKEN BECUSE IT TAKE TOO MUCH SPACE AIRBORNE AND A SLIGHT BOOST WOULD MAKE RUGAL MONSTROUS JUST LIKE GUILE'S FLASH KICK DONE EASIER but hey at least Capcom could have had made it trade.. and about Comparing it to the flash kick.. well don't you notice that as I said Rugal takes up large vertical space for hit detection so even a good DP with Rugal's size would be difficult considering the pressure of eing susceptible to being hit now and then while doing the motion for the kick??? so a good GC DEFINETELY will not overpower rugal Well you're wrong THIS IS a big factor and whomever you're saying about the Genocide cutters criticism is correct, it would be insane if you gave it the Tiger Uperrcut priority why? even if it does less hits like your friend says it takes up too much air space which IMO is worse than multi-hitting single think vertical upward detection DP's so basically if you're doing weak versions you'd see (assuming basing it on Rugal's normal short version Genocutter) it's not that much open when you land or just at least safer than guile's and given it has good priority that would make the cutter extremely abusable which would immediately eliminate all of his problems against offense without needing a level 1 charged for the Genoheaven. and that's just on it's own and you wanted emasculation of all of the rest. quote: ADF: since this is a capcom made move I will not complain about it, it's quite good actually. It's not capcom made it's actually based on Omega Rugal 98's aerial Gravity smash but capcom altered it to make him drop with the wave instead. I actually don't care much for this outside of ticking damage for wake-ups where the Reppuken can also do that. quote: Godpress: HELLO.. another broken move... YOU HAVE BISON.. with a psycho crusher that at least does chip damage.. Travels faster.. lesser hit detection.. CAN ONLY BE PUNISHED by fierce attacks after Bison crosses them and is consistent enough to be good for partial mind games assuming you're risking a clean one-hit fierce retaliation which is part of your gameplan in your tendency to input the crusher. and we have the Godpress that *Doesn't come out as fast *has more "hit rugal out of" sprite detection *Doesn't bounce back so if you're blocked you'll eat a cobo WHICH IS WORSE THAN A FIERCE my point here is think Yuri.. her charging slap move bounces back if blocked.. AND THIS MOVE DOESN'T MAKE YURI OVERPOWERED and now we have RUGAL someone who's BIGGER and consumes more room for getting hit AND a charge move that doesn't bounce back since the godpress and Yuri's charge move was similar in nature.. of course the godpress cn be comboed into the G-heaven but in that sense Rugal won't always have a super because of the groove differences.. and this makes rugal very dependent enough on a method he can't abuse.. besides jumping back doesn't make the godpress cheap.. as Rugal can still be hit while going back or can be DP'ed while the opponent sees Rugal charging at him.. At least this is better than being open for any combo[/b[]. however Bison's psycho crusher doesn't make him do 90 percent combos afterwards so having the risk/return ratio of being punished by a fierce hurts him a lot more in proportion to how a Rugal press is blocked and combo'ed. And about Yuri the slap rush doesn't have as much priority nor does it do as much damage, giving Rugal the backward property if blocked plus the comboabile ability plus the priority plus the genocide heaven juggle would make this move insanely abusable (do not bitch about how DP's can stuff this since in a high profile match they'll think twice too and not everyone has a DP and given it's priotity at mid-execution of the move it's hard to poke rugal out of it. the best thing you would have to hope for is just faster recovery like Bison's scissors kick and such. quote: Dark Barrier: actually all I ask for this move is for reflection of supers.. like it did in Buktooth88's last BETA test report hich is obviouly removed.. anyway I wouldn't change much about this given that Rugal had retained his Bossly qualities as reflectors are not that much a big on impact on SF as it is to KOF as compared to how his other moves are made structurally similar no comment. [/QUOTE] I'd rather not read all of that since you rant about the same stuff again and again as if you can't think about something else. but to answer your claims I will say as I think you would want to be heard. Rugal has decent zoning capabilities and his normals IMO are in no way that worse than that of any of the people you've compared him with, basically you can look at Hao and also state that his moves suck but does he suck in general? NO. they just figured they can't give more than one Bread and butter tactic to a certain char and besides if that was the case with every character then there would be little or no diversity and the game would turn out dull, based on your claims you want Mid hitting projectile Projectile erasing wave safe godpress prioritized GC and combine that with -90% C groove capabilities, 70% CC's, SN grooves L3 to 1 follow ups, practical genoheaven integrators from sweeps, godpresses, and ADF's -Good normals and you have one Monster that's even MUCH better than the top tiers there are now, I would have to say that would be Broken. Posted by dkerbs on 12:05:2001 03:51 AM: Re: ^^ quote: Originally posted by IlluminaZero I hope you do get to say "I told you so" I am getting tired of hearing about Sagat and Blanka 24/7 i know how u feel. i hate hearing about blanka and sagat. personally i like to play ryo ken and yuri. i also like rugal. and to the person that said he has no anti air have u ever heard of the genocide cutter? i think that the reason people do so well with him is simply put they have skill to do so. i like k groove on rugal so u can overpower him in rage and if u are playing a ratio 3 rugal in k groove i remember i asked for some rugal strats for the first cvs and they told me to not worry about it bc he is way better in cvs2. i like him for his pokes, and the hcf k (i think) can be nicely placed to stop rush down or fb or just to caritize.his hcb p is nice also as u can grab people out of the air or run at them then whort jump into that over a fireball. also it will pull blanka out of his roll and it is a nice dash prevent. if u get a few c. lk in on the opponent then it equals free genocide cutter super. i think ratio 3 k groove is effective for rugal. throwing ground fbs isnt a bad idea either. trust me he has potential by no means is he low tier. Posted by Leviathan on 12:05:2001 07:08 AM: Dammit, I've been using Sagat/Blanka since CvS1 came out, now everyone thinks I'm a copycat...grrrr!! Posted by GalzPanic on 12:05:2001 10:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hannibal Smith The N Groove.. A simple Reppuken to God Press to level 3 Genocide Heaven = 8340 A simple level 3 Gigantic Pressure to level 1 Genocide Heaven = 9400 j.HK to level 3 Gigantic Pressure to level 1 Genocide Heaven = 10940 insert other hits for more damage Reppuken to God Press? That's a training mode combo. The other 2 combos are fine, good, and well, but the damage points are also possible in A-groove. Also note that the 2 combos use 3 N-groove stocks. The A-groove bar fills at the same rate as TWO N-groove stocks, so with A-groove you get comparable damage at 2/3 the price of N. A-Rugal also has 7500+ dmg anti-air, no other groove has that. Also, like I said in an earlier post: A simple Dark Smash to CC = 7500+ A simple God press to CC = 9000+ (Although, if you can connect a god press, you should also be able to do the above N-combos, so you know.) In conclusion, the sticking points for A-Rugal are: 1) Comparable damage with 2/3 Meter filling work 2) Free CC after Dark smash and God press 3) 7500 dmg Anti-air. (My fav) Posted by DTwinWarrior on 12:05:2001 04:31 PM: I'm not too sure how much of a factor it is but I have been able to use God Press of counter blanka quite effectivly. It actually throws him out of his roll... Again, I'm not too experienced with the game nad I don't use Rugal too often but the fact that Rugal can counter one of the better characters in the game has to up his value somewhat... Posted by Hannibal Smith on 12:05:2001 11:04 PM: quote: Reppuken to God Press? That's a training mode combo. The other 2 combos are fine, good, and well, but the damage points are also possible in A-groove. Also note that the 2 combos use 3 N-groove stocks. The A-groove bar fills at the same rate as TWO N-groove stocks, so with A-groove you get comparable damage at 2/3 the price of N. A-Rugal also has 7500+ dmg anti-air, no other groove has that. Also, like I said in an earlier post: A simple Dark Smash to CC = 7500+ A simple God press to CC = 9000+ (Although, if you can connect a god press, you should also be able to do the above N-combos, so you know.) In conclusion, the sticking points for A-Rugal are: 1) Comparable damage with 2/3 Meter filling work 2) Free CC after Dark smash and God press 3) 7500 dmg Anti-air. (My fav) quote: insert other hits for more damage Posted by CliffDog on 12:05:2001 11:42 PM: It doesn't seem like this is the topic of debate, but I just wanted to quickly add in here, for completeness, that I was actualyl quite wrong about Rugal's cmk>godpress punisher combo... it can be done quite easily...immediately after blocking, push forward and roll to down, hit mk, then roll to back and hit hp. I thought I tried to do that before but I coudln't get it or I thought it wasn't fast enough (ie, the mk woudln't come out in time), but it's actually not hard. Posted by Spider-Dan on 12:06:2001 02:27 AM: Just as I thought. The extent of everyone's knowledge on the subject seems to be "his combos do hella damage!" (but not much useful tactics on how to land them... crossup j.jab? lol) Anyway, I don't mean to single anyone out. I'm just making the point that before everyone leaps up to yell "I told you Cammy is top tier!" (oops, wrong game) maybe they should consider that they really, truly, didn't know what they were talking about in the first place. Just a thought. Posted by GalzPanic on 12:06:2001 07:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan Just as I thought. The extent of everyone's knowledge on the subject seems to be "his combos do hella damage!" (but not much useful tactics on how to land them... crossup j.jab? lol) Anyway, I don't mean to single anyone out. I'm just making the point that before everyone leaps up to yell "I told you Cammy is top tier!" (oops, wrong game) maybe they should consider that they really, truly, didn't know what they were talking about in the first place. Just a thought. Well, Rugal definitely isn't top tier. To be honest, I tend to turtle up when I use him, using lots of defensive dark smash (which leads to CC if randomly hits), waiting for jump-ins and rolls to punish. The CC I get to land the most his Anti-air CC. Jumpin combos are few and far between because you have land his jumping attacks really deep. Any laggy move by an opponent = low forward xx god press xx CC if charged. Rugal sure won't out poke anyone, ya gotta just be smart with the reppuken's and wait for them to do something stupid, and throw throw throw. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:06:2001 11:07 AM: Blacknoah: Okay you've made your point and I guess I was edgy but in terms of saying that would make Rugal ridiculously broken I would say the same as Sagat is now.. we have one guy with a monstrous set of normals. a good plethora of special moves and supers all purpose and incredibly outrageous in any level.. and guess what he can punish mistakes a lot easier with his C-groove and A-Groove combos and I think it's a lot more practical, AND more damaging than any of Rugal's C/A groove combos.. I think it qwas Tragic's video of crouch fierce to stand fierce to level 2 tiger cannon to level 1 and I don't know about the points but based on the life remaining I'd say it was about as much (if not more) severe in it's less quantity than Rugal's C-groove combos.. now DO YOU GET my point.. simple G-cutters empowerment, safe godpress, erasing Kaiserwave, mid detection reppuken, and the 70 above percent combos in specific grooves would just equal if not still make rugal weaker than Sagat is now. ======================== another topic.. has anyone figured more anti-Bison Rugal strats.. after facing him I'm convinced that Rugal vs Sagat is not that a mismatch afterall.. and I've even learned from the vs Bison experience what sagat lacks that I can take advantage of so now I'm overall better against Sagat... But Bison? Pure Hell. without a question Rugal's TOUGHEST opponent.. (Not Sagat Posted by Fakefist on 12:06:2001 01:50 PM: so spider-dan...what did you *see* Rugal doing? I don't use Rugal and I'm curious to what he was doing. please share. The only reason I've kept checking "theory fighter: Rugal" is because I was under the impression that you'd give up the goods at some point. Again, please share if you have a moment. Posted by cragum on 12:06:2001 04:49 PM: I find some of Rugal's strength comes from the need to continually mix it up. (mentioned earlier: Rugal can't maintain turtle or rushdown very well, so you need to keep switching). Since you have to keep switching, you can usually keep from being predictable, and can have an easier time winning. The continual switch between offensive and defensive keeps your opponent from getting a hold of what you're going to do next in most cases, and i find that to be an advantage. On a side note: if you really need to land a combo with Rugal, go on the offensive w/ Dark Smash c.FP ruppuken &repeat (this isn't really a combo, it's more meant to do the guardbreaking). if they get hit, it's all good, and if they block 2 or 3 of these will guardbreak em (did anybody say 80% combo?). Posted by GalzPanic on 12:06:2001 05:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 has anyone figured more anti-Bison Rugal strats.. after facing him I'm convinced that Rugal vs Sagat is not that a mismatch afterall.. and I've even learned from the vs Bison experience what sagat lacks that I can take advantage of so now I'm overall better against Sagat... But Bison? Pure Hell. without a question Rugal's TOUGHEST opponent.. (Not Sagat Really. . I think Bison is a lot easier match for Rugal than Sagat. Bison basically can not jump on Rugal (standing strong), and cannot P.crusher either (standing fierce). All you have to really worry a lot about is standing fwd/roundhouse, and sweet spot scissor kicks. For the standing kicks I either jump straight up with roundhouse, or do a quick dark smash. Jumping strong is Rugal's air-to-air winner, if they head stomp, try it. The scissor kicks, when used correctly, are always tough. With those you just have to wait for a bad one and punish. Posted by Dynamyte2U on 12:07:2001 03:54 AM: Do a Kaiser Wave and delay it by holding down P. When your opponent is waiting for the projectile to come out, yell "WAVE!!", to make him jump/roll. Then let go of P, at the end of his roll/jump for free damage. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:07:2001 10:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by GalzPanic Really. . I think Bison is a lot easier match for Rugal than Sagat. Bison basically can not jump on Rugal (standing strong), and cannot P.crusher either (standing fierce). All you have to really worry a lot about is standing fwd/roundhouse, and sweet spot scissor kicks. For the standing kicks I either jump straight up with roundhouse, or do a quick dark smash. Jumping strong is Rugal's air-to-air winner, if they head stomp, try it. The scissor kicks, when used correctly, are always tough. With those you just have to wait for a bad one and punish. WOAAAAA Thanks a lot (no wonder my standing HK's get stuffed out) but are you sure it works on Bison's air roundhouse? there's also this tendency that Bison can head stomp me to hell and there's not a damn anti-air or anything I can do about it.. BTW do you need to time the stand fierce against the crusher early because as I recall the tstand fierce takes some start-up (can't you use the crouching one instead?) Posted by superbooga on 12:07:2001 12:55 PM: I think he means using the standing fierce after blocking the psycho crusher. Virtually every character has a standing fierce or roundhouse that can punish a blocked psycho crusher. Sometimes if you attempt to attack too early, you'll get a close up version of the fierce or roundhouse, which may whiff...so wait a bit after blocking the psycho crusher to hit bison back. Posted by Judgment Day on 12:07:2001 04:54 PM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 Rugal in KOF let's say 94/95 with weakened damage. THEY WOULD DEFINETELY BE NOT UNBEATABLE maybe still strong But in THAT RESPECT Just as strong as how Sagat and Bison ares strong in an SF game.. and in this case CvS.. besides given the groove options even a KOF 94 Rugal won't be overpowered.. see my point.. at least Rugal wouldn't be so shallow and limited no matter how good he is in CvS2.. JD (Judgement Day) inspires me to use Rugal as he's one of the better Half CvS2 cast but in that respect Many other fighters get more and they weren't limited I really would like to know what you think of my comments..Mummy-B, Buktooth, JD and Ultima specifically. I didn't get a chance to read all of this, but I saw my name here posted every now and then. I don't really have much of a comment right now (heading off to work), but I might throw in something here and there, if need be. PS: Don't forget that Eddie Lee has recently won a major tournament, having a R1 Rugal on his team, from what I heard. quote: Originally posted by Spider-Dan Just as I thought. The extent of everyone's knowledge on the subject seems to be "his combos do hella damage!" (but not much useful tactics on how to land them... crossup j.jab? lol) Anyway, I don't mean to single anyone out. I'm just making the point that before everyone leaps up to yell "I told you Cammy is top tier!" (oops, wrong game) maybe they should consider that they really, truly, didn't know what they were talking about in the first place. Just a thought. I think that this is a good case of a difference between what's good on blueprint, and what's effective on execution; and depending on that execution reaps the results. Sure the combos are nice...I mean a R3 N-Rugal can do 90% combos on R2s, and 100% on R1s. But if I can't perform it on a consistent basis...if I can't do it when it counts, if I don't have the means to do it at the right time, how useful is it really? quote: Originally posted by Leviathan Dammit, I've been using Sagat/Blanka since CvS1 came out, now everyone thinks I'm a copycat...grrrr!! I hear you on that one, except my scenario is with USBison, and in a sense Rugal. It's kinda frustrating knowing that you faithfully played them yet regarded as "just another bandwagon player" with them now. Show them that nothing is better than the original... Posted by Judgment Day on 12:07:2001 05:10 PM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 1. Is this really a High level Tournament with Sagat's/Bison's and Blank's roaming over and a "mere" Rugal Makes a name for himself????... unlikely 2.THE MOST LIKELY.. Maybe these teams of Rugal, etc., and etc. always goes like this *Round 1:Fight:Rugal gets TOTALLY OWNED PERFECT KO,DOES NOTHING,SELLOUT,WASTE OF ROUND.. *Round 2:Fight:The remaining SAGAT player polishes off the entire team with ease... Unless anyone REALLY confirms that Rugal REALLY DOES WORK in such high level tourneys I'll go by this... 3. Another possibility: This is a High level tournament WITH ONLY KYOSUKES AND DANS (and other lower Tiers) AS OPPOSITION sorry for that.. I just can't see how People can make him work at tourneys AGAISNT BISONS AND SAGATS AND BLANKAS AND SHOTOS AND SUCH. I just read this...! I wish I could get this tournament video of mine online, so I could show you some matches. From what I've experienced outside of myself in CvS2 tournaments: 1) Sagat is the "Flavor of Choice" 2) Blanka isn't far behind 3) There has been more than one Rugal Player. In regards to myself, Rugal is never my lead off, unless I team him up with Bison alone, and depending on what ratio I choose them as. Rugal is almost always last or second (another rarity), whenever I use 3 character teams. So now you know... "And Knowing Is Half The Battle" Posted by water on 12:08:2001 06:29 AM: Well so far i have to agree about sagat and blanka, even though i hate talking about tiers and such. i just play who i like playing...win, lose, or draw. you will or should always learn something new. if it ain't broke don't fix it. if you really think someone is overpowered...no one is stopping you from picking the so called unstoppable forces. or you could just improve...maybe..do you think....hmmm. it's just like any other competition...do what the past winners do or do your own thing...it does not matter as long as it is effective. I am not saying that i have not succumb to the same temptations of caling a certain strat or char cheap, but i think about it for a while and there usually is a way to beat it. sometimes in the heat of battle you just tend to forget. the point is that you must always keep an open mind about it...especially with such a deep game like cvs2. anyone who has a problem grasping this concept, read Killian's articles on SRK. They are great. it really opened my eyes and made me feel really stupid....btw thanks s-kill if you ever read this... mad props. well about Rugal... i think one of his main strengths is the fact that he has some mad combos. they are for the most part fairly easy to execute, even in high level matchplay. and they are still devastating using lvl 1's too. if you want more specifice info about this read the recent basic s-groove thread. i left some decent info on s-groove rugal. maybe it would help. He doesn't really have the potential to outpoke even the average pokers of the game. he does not have a really solid defense ( by that i mean REAlly solid). and his rushdown is only average. but like some of you have already posted, his versatility is his greatest asset. combine that with his punishing abilities and he can be quite deadly. just make sure you don't miss a good opportunity for great damage. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 12:09:2001 04:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by water well about Rugal... i think one of his main strengths is the fact that he has some mad combos. they are for the most part fairly easy to execute, even in high level matchplay. and they are still devastating using lvl 1's too. if you want more specifice info about this read the recent basic s-groove thread. i left some decent info on s-groove rugal. maybe it would help. He doesn't really have the potential to outpoke even the average pokers of the game. he does not have a really solid defense ( by that i mean REAlly solid). and his rushdown is only average. but like some of you have already posted, his versatility is his greatest asset. combine that with his punishing abilities and he can be quite deadly. just make sure you don't miss a good opportunity for great damage. Hmmm to this then anybody can also state their own theories about "hey if you're saying versatility is Rugal's best asset.. THEN WHAT MORE VERSATILITY could be applied to the OTHER characters considering they have lesser limitations.. and that could drop Rugal in the ranks.. High danage punishment (sagat has those too) versatility (anyone else is quite more versatile) But in that respect I would like to ask if there is a single CvS char that Rugal can dominate (i,e Honda > Blanka)? Posted by GalzPanic on 12:09:2001 04:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 Hmmm to this then anybody can also state their own theories about "hey if you're saying versatility is Rugal's best asset.. THEN WHAT MORE VERSATILITY could be applied to the OTHER characters considering they have lesser limitations.. and that could drop Rugal in the ranks.. High danage punishment (sagat has those too) versatility (anyone else is quite more versatile) But in that respect I would like to ask if there is a single CvS char that Rugal can dominate (i,e Honda > Blanka)? I don't think there is. Rugal has to out-finesse (and throw a lot) his opponents. There are a lot of characters like this, however, and the only characters that can really dominate others are the top tier IMO. Posted by Mummy-B on 12:10:2001 12:37 AM: Originally posted by Hannibal Smith quote: insert other hits for more damage What exactly is the point of that? GalzPanic covered the stuff I wanted to say, since I was away getting my ass kicked in London by Ken Takizawa's EX Rog in CvS. The N Groove.. A simple Reppuken to God Press to level 3 Genocide Heaven = 8340 This is even more unrealistic than starting a CC with ADS. Because (a) you need a certain distance for those two starting hits to combo because of recovery time and (b) it's just weaker than the C Groove super cancel combo, for the same exact price, which is more realistic, easier to land, and even looks more pimp. Maybe if you would have said like c.mk XX God Press it would be more believable. A simple level 3 Gigantic Pressure to level 1 Genocide Heaven = 9400 j.HK to level 3 Gigantic Pressure to level 1 Genocide Heaven = 10940 So either you have to land this within the time constraint of the MAX activation, or find some way to activate and execute fast enough to say... Anti-air with the Gigantic Pressure or something. What's more realistic (and dangerous) is anything in C Groove. If you buffer a crouch fierce or combo from a crouch foward into a God Press, you can do an even or MORE damage than the above combos, providing you land the hits correctly. blah. i'm tired. C and A groove are just as good and/or better than N Groove, and certainly better than K Groove overall. that is all. much love to you all, and good night. Posted by cragum on 12:10:2001 01:45 AM: I don't really think we should get into the Groove arguement for Rugal, or anybody else for that matter. as per above arguement, i could just as easily say 'ohyah, well in S you can go lvl 3 gigantic pressure to lvl 1 genocide heaven, then ADS as they get up then lvl 1 genocide heaven again.' or in K you can rage mode reppuken god press lvl 3 genocide heaven. and so on and so on. Posted by Mofo Destroyer on 01:06:2002 07:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dynamyte2U Do a Kaiser Wave and delay it by holding down P. When your opponent is waiting for the projectile to come out, yell "WAVE!!", to make him jump/roll. Then let go of P, at the end of his roll/jump for free damage. Damn I was saving that for B6..... Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:06:2002 08:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B If you buffer a crouch fierce or combo from a crouch foward into a God Press, you can do an even or MORE damage than the above combos, providing you land the hits correctly. wait a sec I thought Rugal's Crouch fierce is NOT cancellabele? if it is then is it only to supers? since I can't cancel it out into a godpress .. gotta try a Gigatech pressure instead.. well can anyone confirm it is? Posted by dkerbs on 01:06:2002 09:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Okay, after checking some of this stuff out, this is my conclusion. Rugal is just good because he can kick your ass in one merciless blow. The thing about him is, he's solid enough to hold his own while you're waiting for that one time you can get in and kick ass. Essentially, once Rugal gets a maximum gauge, he's like a Blanka with Level 3 meter, but even worse, because there's more ways for him to destroy you with. Even if you leave out the first few hits and just land a single God Press, you still do at LEAST 70%+ damage on an even Ratio, and that's with making shortcuts on the combo. Whenever you land a jumping fierce, a cross up lp, or you're able to buffer a crouch fierce, or they make an opening punishable with a God Press, it's like Ryu in CvS1 landing a cross up fk -> c.lk x3 -> c.fk XX Shin Shoryuken - it's THAT game breaking. And, unlike landing a Shun Goku Satsu (Raging Demon) which is equally as game breaking, Rugal landing that ridiculous damage combo is much more a possibility than even Morrigan's j.fp -> cartwheel fk -> Darkness Illusion. Not only that, Rugal's combo does more damage (I used Morrigan as an example because she has a Raging Demon move that is vastly superior to Gouki's or Evil Ryu, IMO, because of it's ability to be comboed into and it just has much more utility). So for the same amount of meter, Rugal has more options and possibility to land an average 80% combo, where a Level 3-exclusive Raging Demon move that has combo properties only does something like 60-70% only IF you get all the hits in before it (if you just connect it, I believe it does roughly 60-65% damage on an even Ratio, I'm just going by experience here). For all practical purposes, Rugal has a "command Raging Demon." Where the typical Raging Demon just floats and does all the hits automatically, you can control Rugal's hits to do just as much or more damage than an actual Raging Demon, and since it's "command," you can set it up and modify it however you please. It's ridiculous. On top of all of this, I've previously stated that Rugal is a relatively solid character ANYWAY. Even if you're expert with him, you don't even NEED the combos to win against alot of characters. For all the ones that you can't, you just build meter and wait for that one opening that eradicates them. He's scary as hell. And that's all I have to say about that. Thanks for the post Mummy-B. I've been interested in Rugal for a while now. I actually saw him ranked dead last in one tierlist and highly in another. One question though. If he is this good then why don't we see him more in tournament play or hear about him more often like we do Blanka and Sagat? Posted by AshramTI on 01:06:2002 05:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by dkerbs Thanks for the post Mummy-B. I've been interested in Rugal for a while now. I actually saw him ranked dead last in one tierlist and highly in another. One question though. If he is this good then why don't we see him more in tournament play or hear about him more often like we do Blanka and Sagat? Probably because Blanka and Sagat have more options without meter. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:07:2002 01:28 AM: AGAIN can nyone confirm me if Rugal's crouch fierce is bufferable into supers? as mummy-B stated? BTW The reason I don't see Rugal ranked solidly (someimes high, sometimes low) s because he requires a longer learning curve than everyone else.. which in turns mkes him fun to play (unless you're a play ONLY to win and not have fun scrub ) IMO he's far more fun to play thn Sagat.. sure Sag's overpowered but ..... :Borrrring: Posted by Iceman on 01:07:2002 02:10 AM: dkerbs: You probably saw him ranked down on that excuse for a ranking "someone annonymous" tryed to give up (yeah, that fool). Most people will agree he's not top tier, but he's no junk character either. Posted by noswad on 01:07:2002 04:35 AM: RUGAL 3:16 - I can't cancel the c.fierce into anything. Maybe he meant standing fierce? Misc Rugal combos ^_^ meaty close forward, sweep, (kick super if near corner) meaty close forward, d.short, lvl3kick super meaty close forward, d.forward, lvl3 punch super Posted by EVIL5150 on 01:07:2002 08:57 AM: c.fp into godpress? maybe it's a link? most likely a typo. Posted by Mummy-B on 01:07:2002 04:17 PM: My bad, I didn't mean crouching, I meant standing. My retarded typo. But in any case, Rugal is SICK. Very, very, very, very SICK. If I have ANY meter and I land a crouch foward, it's combo time. I have recently discovered Rugal's INSANE rushdown ability, it lies in Air Dark Smasher and j.fk/j.lk. The only problems he really has against with ADS is against people with fast jumps like Vega(M.Bison), Balrog(Vega), and Blanka, which is where the fk or lk falls in. Alot of people complain about the start up, but once it GETS started, there's not very much that can stop it, if timed correctly (I've suffed out DPs before with it with frequency, heh). On top of that, whenever it connects, you can combo any level Genocide Heaven afterward (of course), but ideally you'd be in the corner since you only get like one hit from mid screen. I get people in the corner, get a knockdown, and usually do something like a low connecting ADS, sweep, stand fp, and stand fk - usually, one of those things connect. If not, they should stick something out and providing I have meter, they eat a Level 2 Gigantic Pressure super cancelled into a fp God Press. You will also be amazed how effective this is AND how much meter you build while you're doing it. Then just continuously rush that shit down, and if you every need to back off, do it and cover yourself with a Kaiser Wave. It sounds kinda retarded, but it's so effective, believe me. I've come back from losing two Ratio 1's with JUST a R2 Rugal against an entire team this way, I did it about four times today (except that Japanese guy using P Groove, damn he Parried my ass off). Against a Sagat even. But that has alot to do with me pulling out a Level 2 super on reaction to a stand mk or stand fierce. Let go on the record and say that an even ratio Rugal *can* handle a Sagat. He *can*. I hope we see some Rugals in tourneys. Posted by novaSphere on 01:07:2002 09:40 PM: Mr. "Rugal can't [rush down] or [turtle] well enough to support himself" changes his tune, eh? I'm amazed that a Lv.2 super actually takes Sagat out of his c.HP. Given the dominance of normal attacks in CvS2, that's really an accomplishment for a Super Then again, Rugal's supers have always come out instantly anyway, which is the reason why I've always been fond of Rugal, even back in the original CvS during his not-so-stellar performance. Posted by Mummy-B on 01:08:2002 02:03 AM: Yeah man. Holy crap. I was sitting there chilling and I got bored playing him the same way, so I decided to try and kinda play him the way I used to play Morrigan when I first picked her up back in the CvS1 days. I figured, well, he has a standing kick that anti-airs, a decent sweep, and standing punch that is really good, and a quasi-air projectile, AND he's got really fast supers (Morrigan's uppercut super was RETARDED FAST in CvS1 for those of you who didn't know, and juggled off of itself several times the way Genocide Heaven practically juggles off of everything). And his crouching foward isn't too bad, but since I don't really use it to poke I couldn't tell you, heh. Yo what is wrong with him, he is sick as hell! He does like SO MUCH DAMAGE I thought Sagat was f***ed up damage. I'm killing Ratio 1s with like one combo. jesus... Posted by noswad on 01:08:2002 04:58 AM: I like how lvl2 punch super can also go through FB pushouts and stuff like that. Nice invinciblity. Nice damage too with the hcb+p for just a lvl2. Why can't I ever land a lvl1 kick super after it? Posted by Judgment Day on 01:08:2002 05:53 AM: Hmm...glad to see this thread revived. Rugal is by far the great equalizer IMO. Just read what Mummy's saying. In a nutshell, Rugal is dangerous . quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Let go on the record and say that an even ratio Rugal *can* handle a Sagat. He *can*. I hope we see some Rugals in tourneys. I'm trying. Problem is that I'm usually busy with work and all, so I don't get a chance to enter many of them (Only 3 so far). When I do, the end result is fairly satisfactory. Hopefully I'll be able to enter Michigan's Ranking Tournament on a regular basis in a couple of weeks and put the "R" on the map. Posted by Someone anonymous on 01:08:2002 12:14 PM: I can't believe some Idiot decided to revive this garbage again, I'm telling you you're only making it worse for other people encouraging them inirectly to use a worthless character and I knew certain dimits would flock here most notably rugal3:16, Iceman, and Mummy-B after reading James Chen's faqs it's become more obvious why Rugal is even weaker than he was in capcom vs snk1 of course as much as you would like to use this against me this is where geese comes in whom virtually does anything that rugal can but better, (he's better enough not to be classified to rugal category) sounds like i'm trashtalking let me put it out to you, -as much decent as you claim rugal or sagat is to be they still require a different not that pratical learning curve (well maybe sagat is easier to learn but even if you did pick rugal and play him for a year or two non stop you'd benefit from nothing) -i would like to rephrase a bit of my rankings rock is NOT number to since his counter cannot deflect cross-ups, but in fairness i am placing your precious sagat that atop. -rugal316 bison is rugal's worst threat that's absurd we all know geese is since shotos gameplay overall(particularly akuma) > rugal's gameplay overall and Geese is a modified version of akuma so geese > rugal -and let me again state these geese has lesser detection geese has longer reach even though having lesser detection geese has the standing sk and sweep which makes for an excellent zoning tool that rugal greatly lacks geese has an air fireball geese has a crossup and rugal doesn't geese geese has more damaging combos super or non super(deadly rave to raging storm in S and N grooves is unbeatable in damage) geese's reppuken comes out faster to take advanatage of a crouching mk's reel stun whereas rugal's reppuken comes out so slow that even if the crouch mk hits the enemy has already been out of reel stun if you wanna talk about practical combos geese has sweep to raging storm the list goes on and on. and i'm willing to talk about gameplay despite you people labeling me as a fanboy of sorts. Posted by Someone anonymous on 01:08:2002 12:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by novaSphere Mr. "Rugal can't [rush down] or [turtle] well enough to support himself" changes his tune, eh? I'm amazed that a Lv.2 super actually takes Sagat out of his c.HP. Given the dominance of normal attacks in CvS2, that's really an accomplishment for a Super Then again, Rugal's supers have always come out instantly anyway, which is the reason why I've always been fond of Rugal, even back in the original CvS during his not-so-stellar performance. this is the only post (along with strider hiryus) that makes sense. and no I don't hate rugal or am poppoing up anytime to tell he's weak just for wanting attention. i'm only trying to help i just think he's weak and worthless something you can't see. all those tournaments won i think they ae just rugal fanboys wanting to make rugal's ass famous. (i can't believe for the first time I used ass) and Judgement Day it's me chi from KOF4ever in th old days but i doubt you remember and frankly i couldn't care less. Posted by Judgment Day on 01:08:2002 02:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by Someone anonymous and Judgement Day it's me chi from KOF4ever in th old days but i doubt you remember and frankly i couldn't care less. "Your Opinion Will Be Valued" I remember you. Posted by Overdrive on 01:08:2002 03:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by Someone anonymous geese has a crossup and rugal doesn't Rugal has a crossup. It's jumping middle kick. Thanks for showing us that you know nothing about Rugal, though. Posted by Mummy-B on 01:08:2002 05:47 PM: quote: Originally posted by Someone anonymous I can't believe some Idiot decided to revive this garbage again, I'm telling you you're only making it worse for other people encouraging them inirectly to use a worthless character and I knew certain dimits would flock here most notably rugal3:16, Iceman, and Mummy-B after reading James Chen's faqs it's become more obvious why Rugal is even weaker than he was in capcom vs snk1 of course as much as you would like to use this against me this is where geese comes in whom virtually does anything that rugal can but better, (he's better enough not to be classified to rugal category) sounds like i'm trashtalking let me put it out to you, -as much decent as you claim rugal or sagat is to be they still require a different not that pratical learning curve (well maybe sagat is easier to learn but even if you did pick rugal and play him for a year or two non stop you'd benefit from nothing) -i would like to rephrase a bit of my rankings rock is NOT number to since his counter cannot deflect cross-ups, but in fairness i am placing your precious sagat that atop. -rugal316 bison is rugal's worst threat that's absurd we all know geese is since shotos gameplay overall(particularly akuma) > rugal's gameplay overall and Geese is a modified version of akuma so geese > rugal -and let me again state these geese has lesser detection geese has longer reach even though having lesser detection geese has the standing sk and sweep which makes for an excellent zoning tool that rugal greatly lacks geese has an air fireball geese has a crossup and rugal doesn't geese geese has more damaging combos super or non super(deadly rave to raging storm in S and N grooves is unbeatable in damage) geese's reppuken comes out faster to take advanatage of a crouching mk's reel stun whereas rugal's reppuken comes out so slow that even if the crouch mk hits the enemy has already been out of reel stun if you wanna talk about practical combos geese has sweep to raging storm the list goes on and on. and i'm willing to talk about gameplay despite you people labeling me as a fanboy of sorts. You really try hard to justify Geese. I will admit that Geese is pretty good. I use him often, actually with Rock and Rugal on one team and very frequently Geese does very well. But uh, try really hard beating a jumping fierce, stand fierce buffered to a fierce God Press followed by a Level 2 Genocide Heaven super canceled into a fierce Air Dark Smasher into yet another Level 1 Genocide Heaven. If you time this like you're supposed to, you get about ninety percent damage, maybe slightly more - I can kill a Ratio 1 with this combo while screwing up the timing even. And if you want to talk practical combos, Rugal has c.lk x3 into any level Genocide Heaven, crouch foward into fierce God Press and then into any level Genocide Heaven if you meter, any strength Air Dark Smasher into any level Genocide Heaven, and any level God Press or Gigantic Pressure into any level Genocide Heaven. All of which are practical, because I land all of those combos in match play, sometimes even more than once. Rugal has stand fierce that beats out a majority of Geese's pokes alone. Rugal's sweep owns Geese's period. Rugal's anti-air is stand fk, which anti-airs with consistency. Geese's crouch fierce isn't as consistent, and you can't lk counter every time there's a jumping attack or Raging Storm correctly whenever there's a jumping attakc either. Rugal's Air Dark Smasher will eat Geese's Shippuken and still him hit too, as well as beat out any of his possible retaliatory normals. Rugal has just as good a cross up as already assessed by Overdrive. Geese can never handle Sagat or Blanka nearly as well as Rugal could for a list of reasons, most of which can only be proven in gameplay. Geese just doesn't do as much damage as Rugal does overall realistically, nor does he have the rushdown capability. A Rugal crouch foward into a fierce God Press is far more deadly than any Geese crouch foward into a Reppuken will EVER be, period. Even then the recovery time is the same and hitreel may have like one or two frame difference but I really doubt it. If you have enough time to sit there and analyze frame difference, you've got more issues than I really think you do. To summarize, Rugal is just better. In CvS1 and CvS Pro, he may not have been, but there is no way that Geese or EX Geese could outdo normal Rugal in CvS Pro by far. You had a free any level Genocide Heaven after a punch throw for crying out loud. The only real advantage Geese has is that his high counter can stop any level rush supers. Damn, as if I couldn't block them in the same time I can do qcf+lk, and if it's Raging Demon style move, I can just tap up on the damn joystick. Face it. rugal can beat Geese is just about every category, and any well played Rugal can own any well played Geese. It's just the way it is. Like how Sagat owns Kyosuke. Life is just tough like that. Get over it. Posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN on 01:08:2002 06:29 PM: rugals standing mp is a very good anti-air also. I think his anti-air game should be sued like this..... Genocide cutter should be used on ground moves. Standing mp against air attacks right in front of you standing roundhouse against the air attacks that are more or less right above you... just my opnion..im not really a rugal expert but just though id add my 2 cents. Posted by novaSphere on 01:08:2002 08:52 PM: Geese = Modified AKUMA?! Gee, I suppose ANYONE with an air fireball becomes a modified version of Akuma. Morrigan, Ryo, Rolento, Yuri... And all my above examples are more similar to Akuma than Geese is (with the exception of Rolento, of course). It's actually hard to Justify Geese vs Rugal, since Geese is a Control and Turtle character, while Rugal is much more about Offense and Punishing mistakes. Neither character is adept at handling the things the other is good at (which makes Rugal succeptable to rushdown and Geese easily turtle-able). Had some other stuff to say, but I have to leave now. I will edit this post later on. Posted by Someone anonymous on 01:09:2002 01:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B But uh, try really hard beating a jumping fierce, stand fierce buffered to a fierce God Press followed by a Level 2 Genocide Heaven super canceled into a fierce Air Dark Smasher into yet another Level 1 Genocide Heaven. If you time this like you're supposed to, you get about ninety percent damage, maybe slightly more - I can kill a Ratio 1 with this combo while screwing up the timing even. have you seriously seen the deadly rave into raging storm combo? quote: And if you want to talk practical combos, Rugal has c.lk x3 into any level Genocide Heaven, crouch foward into fierce God Press and then into any level Genocide Heaven if you meter, any strength Air Dark Smasher into any level Genocide Heaven, and any level God Press or Gigantic Pressure into any level Genocide Heaven. All of which are practical, because I land all of those combos in match play, sometimes even more than once. that's my point Rugal always has to HAVE a super to do combos and seriously if you have played a high level matchup then you will no that NO ONE makes mistakes just look at nelson vs cole at shinakuma.com. so rugal's punishing mistakes gameplay won't be pactical. quote: Rugal has stand fierce that beats out a majority of Geese's pokes alone. Rugal's sweep owns Geese's period. you're basing it on one on one context but in the others look at it this way it doesn't mater if a sweep owns a certain sweep but if that sweep even if owned does overall better than the sweep that owns it in actual gameplay. quote: Rugal's anti-air is stand fk, which anti-airs with consistency. Geese's crouch fierce isn't as consistent, and you can't lk counter every time there's a jumping attack or Raging Storm correctly whenever there's a jumping attakc either. don't argue with me about execution again because it's laughable. quote: Rugal's Air Dark Smasher will eat Geese's Shippuken and still him hit too, as well as beat out any of his possible retaliatory normals. Rugal has just as good a cross up as already assessed by Overdrive. but then again I don't think there is ANY of Rugal's attacks that can BEAT geese's crossup flying mk ith the HUGE hitbox try it, try stuffing geese out of his air mk and NOTHING will work. [quote[ Geese can never handle Sagat or Blanka nearly as well as Rugal could for a list of reasons, most of which can only be proven in gameplay [/quote] this is bull, since geese has lesser frame detection it's more obvious that he can sneak into sagat easier and not get outzoned as badly as rugal could and let's not forget that a double reppuken beats the blanka ball. quote: Geese just doesn't do as much damage as Rugal does overall realistically, nor does he have the rushdown capability. a geese can just abuse flying mk's all day and bat out almost any anti-air and air to air retaliation with little risk, rugal CANNOT do that. quote: A Rugal crouch foward into a fierce God Press is far more deadly than any Geese crouch foward into a Reppuken will EVER be, period. Even then the recovery time is the same and hitreel may have like one or two frame difference but I really doubt it. If you have enough time to sit there and analyze frame difference, you've got more issues than I really think you do. all of your assumptions are just based when they connect but you forgot to note that at least geese has one pressure that holds enough block stun for chip damag whereas all the pressures rugal has is just withering down th guard meter and no chip damage since he cannot low mk/sweep into a reppuken because the enemy would recover enough. quote: To summarize, Rugal is just better. In CvS1 and CvS Pro, he may not have been, but there is no way that Geese or EX Geese could outdo normal Rugal in CvS Pro by far. You had a free any level Genocide Heaven after a punch throw for crying out loud. The only real advantage Geese has is that his high counter can stop any level rush supers. Damn, as if I couldn't block them in the same time I can do qcf+lk, and if it's Raging Demon style move, I can just tap up on the damn joystick. Face it. rugal can beat Geese is just about every category, and any well played Rugal can own any well played Geese. It's just the way it is. Like how Sagat owns Kyosuke. Life is just tough like that. Get over it. let me ask you this. who's easier to use? who's easier to dominate? Geese, the easier to use the better, the term "he's strong but hard to use" is just an excuse for being weak. just for your information about some past tidbits a bit off-topic actually geese has now officially become a kof boss in the gameboy advance title KOF EX Geese is the last boss and you fight him three times like there is three geese's. and according to some people on the web= quote: "I think the main thing that everyone will disagree with is the fact that I put Geese a notch above Yama and Rugal. The reason really is simple. The thing is, Geese really is a lot like Ryu in this game- he has nothing overtly 'good', but has very, very nice advantages all around- good stand fierce, decent stand roundhouse, good sweep, excellent jabs, good projectile, easy cross up (jumping foward), and a short jump attack that can be comboed off semi-consistently (jumping fierce). Geese's supers also create a lot of tactical advantages for him. Level 3 stored= No fireballs, no easily telegraphed pokes and no jumps for the enemy. Meanwhile, Rugal is hamstrung by the mediocre pokes Capcom gave him, the not so good Reppuken. I've yet to see anything about him that's good besides his combos from hell. Its sad, because most Rugal players I see are reduced to doing random air dives, and roll>crounching shorts>whatever, and short Genocide Cutting limbs. Yamazaki, of course, suffers from the fact that he has basically no offensive game besides the stand round house/snake hand poke combination... until he gets his level 3, anyway" Posted by novaSphere on 01:09:2002 03:08 AM: There's a difference between what "some people" from the web are and "one person" from the web, whom is obviously the person you quote in that last bit. The interesting bit is, however, that the guy you quote seems to deliberately cut Rugal and Yamazaki short in order to make Geese look better. He mentions plenty of positive things about his Lv3 abilities, even though both Rugal and Yamazaki gain the exact same things ("No fireballs, no easily telegraphed pokes and no jumps for the enemy" as he puts it). FYI, Deadly Rave is a pretty damn slow rush super, plus the fact that everyone else's rush super is faster and ALSO goes through fireballs. Yamazaki's Lv3 Guillotine = No Jumps or fireballs for the enemy, and the Drill = no easily telegraphed pokes. Rugal's Lv2-3 Gigantic Pressure = No Easily telegraphed pokes nor fireballs, and to a limited extent, no Jumps. Genocide Heaven works semi-well as anti-air (but his normals are better suited for such). Geese's Whatever -> Deady Rave -> Whatever -> Raging Storm, while ridiculously powerful, takes three N-Groove stocks or one S-Groove meter while in red. Either way, Rugal and Yamazaki are going to have their respective supers charged considerably faster, and they don't use Lv3s to deal plenty of damage. Now, I don't want to get into "Quote Tag" where people splice posts up and respond to each bit separately, but I may have no choice. Bit 1: "that's my point Rugal always has to HAVE a super to do combos and seriously if you have played a high level matchup then you will no that NO ONE makes mistakes just look at nelson vs cole at shinakuma.com. so rugal's punishing mistakes gameplay won't be pactical." You say all this crap about Rugal, when all your amazing Geese combos also all require even MORE super meter than Rugal. Also keep in mind that Rugal just needs a Lv1 to start dealing death, whereas Geese absolutely needs his Lv3 to do all his massive damage, mainly because his Lv1 Raging Storm is not only horrible, but it's all he has. This is assuming that you're in S- or N- Groove, since you tout the Deadly Rave -> Storm combo so much. For Geese to be able to connect his Deadly Rave, he has to be in the exact same predicament as Rugal; a position to get in some LKs -> Super. Rugal actually has the advantage here; if you use a lone Deadly Rave as your setup, Rugal's Gigantic Pressure does the job even better because it's faster. Mummy stated that he countered Sagat's c.HP with Gigantic Pressure. That's not punishing mistakes, that's either pure reaction, prediction, or plain luck Geese can't really do that as easily with the Deadly Rave, because its hits are not all guarenteed from range, plus it's all Lv3. (In Geese's defense, you could just Mid-Counter Sagat's ground pokes because Mid-Counter stops all standing attacks and low punches, as well as mid-level sweeps.) Basing your argument on a LONE CvS2 match video is just not fair for anyone. Bit 2: "you're basing it on one on one context but in the others look at it this way it doesn't mater if a sweep owns a certain sweep but if that sweep even if owned does overall better than the sweep that owns it in actual gameplay. " Geese's sweep is amazing. I still don't see how Rugal's sweep is any better than Geese's sweep, in just about every context. for the love of god Chi, learn some punctuation! Bit 3: "don't argue with me about execution again because it's laughable." Even if you can whip out crazy-fast motions in an instant, the fact remains that empty jump-ins destroy Geese's High-Counter attempts, and Lv1 Raging Storms are slow and very hard to use. Bit 4: "but then again I don't think there is ANY of Rugal's attacks that can BEAT geese's crossup flying mk ith the HUGE hitbox try it, try stuffing geese out of his air mk and NOTHING will work." They'll trade in Rugal's favor, since all his Anti-Air non-supers do more damage than the jumping MK. Bit 5: "this is bull, since geese has lesser frame detection it's more obvious that he can sneak into sagat easier and not get outzoned as badly as rugal could and let's not forget that a double reppuken beats the blanka ball. " What's this "lesser frame detection" you keep on babbling about? Geese's size isn't that much smaller than Rugals, which is large enough to get hit by the same pokes at the same range. Let's not forget that the God Press beats the Blanka Ball Though the startup of the God Press will get him hit out, Blocking the Ball and then God Pressing (or better, GigaPressuring) will do Blanka Dirty. Both options deal a hell of a lot more damage than the Double Reppuken :P Bit 6: "a geese can just abuse flying mk's all day and bat out almost any anti-air and air to air retaliation with little risk, rugal CANNOT do that." Geese's jump is so high and slow that it's pretty easy to nail him with Anti-Airs. Granted, jumping MK is good, but not nearly as good as you say it is. It can be pretty easily beat if you just toss it around, and that's not to say that people could early-AA or late-AA you, and depending on how early/late you use the MK, they could adjust their timing (which is simple considering Geese's jump height). Rugal's Dark Smash, while much slower, has similar applications; a good jumping attack, but not godlike. Bit 7: "all of your assumptions are just based when they connect but you forgot to note that at least geese has one pressure that holds enough block stun for chip damag whereas all the pressures rugal has is just withering down th guard meter and no chip damage since he cannot low mk/sweep into a reppuken because the enemy would recover enough." Geese's c.lp c.lk c.mk reppuken pressure "combo" works very well, but that's really the only thing he has over Rugal in that respect. However, it's not really a valid argument to say one's better because they can make someone block a fireball. Besides, that blocked chain is a push-back pattern rather than an amazing Guard Crusher. Since Geese has pushed his opponent back a bit, that may open him up for more zoning after he's worked so hard to get himself close. It's worse for Rugal though, who doesn't even really have an option for close-range footsies. However, if they've managed to work themselves into an opponent, they'll probably have done that through means of an opening; both characters can capitalize on that pretty quickly, with both characters being able to do their Grand Slam combo before they get zoned again. Generally Rugal will be in a better predicament (opponent in corner, heavily damaged), unless Geese somehow manages a Dizzy after his Deadly Rave followup. Bit 8: "let me ask you this. who's easier to use? who's easier to dominate? Geese, the easier to use the better, the term "he's strong but hard to use" is just an excuse for being weak." Rugal is easier to use. They're both pretty easily dominated; Rugal gets rushed, Geese gets turtled. To be honest, Geese fits the "strong but hard to use" mold quite well. Counters initially seem easy-to-use, but their actual usefulness is dubious without some serious prediction/projection of enemies. The Raging Storm is tough. I don't care what you say about your execution, it's a lot easier to screw up a Storm than say, a Genocide Heaven. The thing is, Geese is QUITE strong, despite his difficulty of use. The whole "strong yet hard to use = weak" argument just doesn't work, and it's proven with one name: Rolento. You just can't argue that Rolento takes some serious work to use well, but if you can get the hang of him, he's really god damn good. Already tagged the quote from another person. There, my turn's over. /me hits Anonymous Tag! You're it! Posted by noswad on 01:09:2002 04:13 AM: MUMMY-B: How exactly does Rugal's sweep "own" Geese's? I'm no Geese fanboy like Someone Anonymous (no offense dude, but seriously.. Not even YOU can deny it), but I fail to see how Rugal's sweep is far far superior to Geese's. If I'm in a footsie war, I would much rather have Geese's sweep than Rugal's.. Longer, maybe even faster it seems. Am I reading that Rugal has no answer to Geese's j.forward?? >rubs eyes< ^_^ Methinks someone anonymous is stretching the truth a little too much.. Posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN on 01:09:2002 04:36 AM: Well im very bored tonight so all reply to this thread again as i have few little opinions to make.. Someone anonymous said something like that no one makes mistakes or something along the lines of that..well im not sure if your trying to be sarcastic but I mean maybe say your having a good day or something and everything is working fine..but i mean somedays your gonna make some mistakes...its inevitable really. OK also i gotta say that i think geeses sweep is just as good as rugals if not better....its just real fast...then again i dont play as either of the characters very much so I may be wrong... some one said something about geeses push out ducking lk,lp, km, repuken...well that thing sucks balls against a groove with rolling..sorry it really does..doesnt combo and its just a free hit for your opponent i hate when i see even say some one like ryu try and do a push out tactic like that in this game..i just roll and throw...tactics like these are very hard to use effectivly in this game since rolls can be sued as reversals. Cross up stuff... I think rugal has a more annoying cross up game than geese does. I dunno anyway im not trying to say whos better or anything and again i dont play as either of them very much but i play against them...I mean its like both rugal and geese both have problems....and honestly just as with rugal i think geese needs super to be fearful cuz even though he has those counters the raging storm is the thing that makes me think twice about jumping in. Posted by novaSphere on 01:09:2002 04:46 AM: I knew that "chain" was rollable (that's why I didn't say it was a combo....did I?), but it DOES serve as a neat little pressure pattern. You could also just not do a reppuken at the end and toss them out of their roll But let's stop playing Theory Fighter right now. Posted by Mummy-B on 01:09:2002 11:51 AM: Well, I was basing Rugal's c.fk owning Geese's c.fk mainly due to the fact that somehow I have managed to stuff Geese's with Rugal's very consistently in gameplay. But I will take you guys' word for it, I guess it has more to do with me hitting the button earlier I supposed. Japanese cabinets won't let you see the other person so I couldn't tell you. I think novasphere basically said everything. I still maintain that Rugal is far more dangerous than Geese, while Geese is still really good. I play him R1 and he really does good, and I don't even do very much with him. I mean shit, I've been playing Rugal for a while now and I'm still discovering new shit with him, it's amazing. I love it. Posted by noswad on 01:10:2002 06:23 AM: Well, I DO see rugal's sweep being better upclose.. It seems to come out fast enough. I like geese's sweep for poking and catching whiffs.. It just irks me that it's Rugal's is so short. >shrugs< I guess he can't have it all? ^_^ I just noticed that s.mp is great air-counter.. from the right range. Even better than I thought. If they want to hit you out of it cleanly, they've got to hit it waaaay early. Early enough that if they do you can possibly super grab them before they land. ^_^ d.mp also has some anti-air properties.. Owns hurricane kicks. Anyone else know of other moves it will take out like this? Posted by GalzPanic on 01:10:2002 06:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by noswad Well, I DO see rugal's sweep being better upclose.. It seems to come out fast enough. I like geese's sweep for poking and catching whiffs.. It just irks me that it's Rugal's is so short. >shrugs< I guess he can't have it all? ^_^ I just noticed that s.mp is great air-counter.. from the right range. Even better than I thought. If they want to hit you out of it cleanly, they've got to hit it waaaay early. Early enough that if they do you can possibly super grab them before they land. ^_^ d.mp also has some anti-air properties.. Owns hurricane kicks. Anyone else know of other moves it will take out like this? s. mp is great. . .it's a lot better than st. HK, which you need more decent timing for. cr. HP is pretty good too. .it's good for people who jump shallow in front of you. You can also use it to poke, but BEWARE it will go over certain crouching characters! Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:14:2002 01:35 AM: so the "Fake" chi is at it again? oh well if he has anything in common with the REAL chi it's that she posts once in a blue moon. but I'd like to confirm somethings standing strong (MP) IMO is an even better anti-air than the standing Roundhouse outside of a foe's jump trajectory falling at you at a 45 degree angle (where HK is best against) the MP can STUFZF lots of air attacks if timed right including 1. shotos flying short, forward, Roundhouse and fierce 2. Geese's flying forward 3. Bison's flying roundhouse!!!!! keep in mind I did say that it has to be timed right otherwise anyway a missed timing would at least only result in a trade-hit which at least doesn't lead to a jump in to combo. the crouch strong can somewhat be used as an anti-air similar to how Bison uses the crouch strong/fierce as a late one (actually this best anti-airs against air attacks done early while they are expecting to hit you out of a standing animation and then you suddenly crouch out of their jump attacks supposedly perfect hitbox position to hit you and go for this) of course it's not as effective as Bison's. close standing fierce ALSO in a wierd way acts as an anti-air for the reversed purpose of the crouching strong.. as you have to lure the enemy to make a DEEP jump in to hit you while you are crouching (the set-up position) and then before the hitting phase of their moves would hit low enough you then stand up and smack them with this immediate move but keep in mind that you have to have good timing as there are still some frames spent standing up. I want to see if this will work though according to chen's system and combo faqs you can cancel the longer delay of a low jump into a special or super and I've fought [b]Yagami and he did something to hibiki a low jump combo of low jump roundhouse (i don't know if it was deep or high hitting) and then her close-up level three only fade to black super.. i suppose that super cancelled the short jumps longer landing animation so I would want to ask if you can confirm that a low jump forward or roundhouse (high hitting or not) would allow a G-heaven combo from a low jump (of course in the same manner that hibiki cancels the delay into the blacklout I would want to know if the genocide heaven works as well since it IS ALSO INSTANT... Posted by noswad on 01:14:2002 05:23 AM: Yeah, it works.. little jump rh, kick super works really well especially at lvl2 or 3. Probably the easiest little jump cancel Rugal has. lvl3 punch super can work too, but from farther out you would want to use the kick super. If you land the little jump rh while they're ducking it will almost always work. kick DP can work too. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 01:14:2002 06:00 AM: Holy shit I've tried it and it works!!! It really improved the way I play Rugal.. and practical enough too. BTW like I said the standing MP makes deaing with rushdown easier for him.. WHAT HE HAS TROUBLE AGAINST are people who zone him from the ground.. people like sakura and Hibiki though not having the farthest of pokes have the fastest of pokes!! this is a reason why why I think Rugal does better against Yamazaki's standing HK zoning game as well as Sagat's standing MK because there is no speed benefit.. sometimes I think of playing rugal like a neutered (weakened sagat) stand MK when I would normally stand LK with sagat Crouch fierce when I would normally stand MK with sagat stand fierce when I would normally crouch fierce with sagat but I guess that's just it because IMO those are the moves that makes sagat overpowered. But I still maintain that Bison is TOUGHER for Rugal than Sagat is. Posted by hyt on 01:14:2002 03:21 PM: Hey fellow Rugal users! Glad to see this thread is still alive! Nice trick on the low jump HK to G.Heaven. Now it's a matter of finding fast lvl 3s off low jumps. Too bad I've switched from P-Rugal to A-Rugal. IMHO I use the s.MP as AA for normal jumps because I have shoddy reflexes and usually have the s.HK come out too late. Especially against characters like Rolento who have fast jumps. Of course there's a situation for the 4 different AAs and it's a matter of judgement and timing when we choose which ones to use. My current A-Groove combo is like this (off Godpress or Dark Barrier w/opponent 1/3 screen from corner) CC, {sj.HP x 2, qcf + LP}, {sj.HP x 2, sj.MP} x 4, Gigantic Pressure This does around 7900 dmg for the CC alone. The most I've ever gotten was 10418 from a j.HK, s.HK, HP Godpress combo and I've had to make a variation because of the CC damage formula j.HK, s.HK, HP Godpress, CC, {sj.HP x 2, qcf + LP}, {sj.HP x 2, sj.MP}, HP Godpress x 5, Gigantic Pressure. If I'm lazy, I just do {sj.HP x 2, sj.MP} x 5 where the difference the Dark Barrier makes in the CC is only around 200 - 400 dmg. I remember there was a post where somebody got a CC doing 12000+ dmg but I can't seem to find it. If anyone remembers and could post the link that would be great! Posted by tactics108 on 01:23:2002 04:05 AM: since this thread has essentially become the rugal strat thread i was just wondering how you feel roll-cancelling effects rugals game, no one has really added to this thread lately but adding my two cents anyways; this recent development greatly improves rugals game in any groove with a roll, i see him as one of those who benefits the most from the discovery of this new glitch as he can now god press through fireballs, or near anything else for that matter, ofcourse this takes alot of skill but i see rugal as becoming a dominant force if roll-cancels could be done consistently. what do you think? most agree that the discovery will shake up tiers, which is obvious, but will rugal now be high top tier? i think it's very possible, but then again this thing may end up banned. i personallyhope it doesn't get banned atleast until the full ramifications of this glitch have been revealed. Posted by Mummy-B on 01:23:2002 03:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by tactics108 since this thread has essentially become the rugal strat thread i was just wondering how you feel roll-cancelling effects rugals game, no one has really added to this thread lately but adding my two cents anyways; this recent development greatly improves rugals game in any groove with a roll, i see him as one of those who benefits the most from the discovery of this new glitch as he can now god press through fireballs, or near anything else for that matter, ofcourse this takes alot of skill but i see rugal as becoming a dominant force if roll-cancels could be done consistently. what do you think? most agree that the discovery will shake up tiers, which is obvious, but will rugal now be high top tier? i think it's very possible, but then again this thing may end up banned. i personallyhope it doesn't get banned atleast until the full ramifications of this glitch have been revealed. This is definately something to look at for Rugal, for the sole reason that God Press will set up combos right after it, and in C Groove it will set up his most damaging super cancel. However, the only real thing that Roll Cancelling a God Press right now is allow him to evade projectiles from mid screen (it's too slow from full screen, unlike Blanka's fp Ball), allows you to absolutely not time it at ALL for punish pokes (like Vega's [M.Bison's] stand fk, or even the Devil's Reverse!), and/or handle trouble some specials (Devil's Reverse). The thing about it is, whether it has 27 frames of invinciblity or not, it can still be blocked and when it IS blocked, it STILL leaves him vulnerable for punishment. So essentially, Roll Cancelling God Press really just makes the practicality of using it outside of a combo much better. ... At least, as far as I can see. Posted by Mummy-B on 01:27:2002 01:15 PM: You know, I was thinking of writing up a little guide on Rugal - we have alot of nice stuff here along with the fact that I personally would like to promote him being played more often. What do you guys think about that? Posted by cragum on 01:28:2002 09:05 PM: Re: Mummy-B makin Guide. You making a guide for Rugal would kickass. I was trying to make one but i suck at it, so if someone else does it i don't have to feebly attempt. Posted by Ben-Ra on 01:29:2002 09:33 AM: Not to mention RC gives him a real AA(Genocide Cutter). Hmmm...maybe some weird mind games with RC Kaiser Wave... Posted by Mummy-B on 02:01:2002 07:25 PM: Alright.... I'll have a Rugal reference guide up, but it'll be a couple weeks because my new comp doesn't ship to me for a week and a half or so Rugal is one of those guys you really have to know your normals with. He actually has a pretty sick poking game but damn if you hit the wrong normal it's your ass... Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 02:07:2002 10:44 AM: I maybe Paranoid about the "fake" chi's claim but.. I hope it's not True that Rugal's THE MOST Rushdown susceptible character in the game. BTW the REAL chi is Back.. http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...20&pagenumber=4 She is named Violet How do I know it's the real chi? 1. She's all Fanboy 2. She's all Geese (well this is the TRADEMARK for all the chi wannabees during the past 3 years [Yes she's been around that long]) 3. No gameplay Knowledge (that Card Fighters Clash claim is arguable though) I just found out in C-Groove Rugal can do another level 1 Gigatech Pressure AFTER a level 2 Gigatech Pressure (and that's full damage) unlike If I do a Genocide heaven that hits only twice most of the times in actual battle. But can anyone confirm if Rugal can do a Genocide Cutter super cancelled from AFTER a Level 2 Gigatech pressure? Posted by water on 02:07:2002 11:04 PM: Rugal can do a genocide heaven after ANY god press, super or otherwise. BTW, you could also do a normal god press after lvl 2 gp. It is stronger than a lvl 3. Posted by Mummy-B on 02:08:2002 03:49 PM: Oh you guys didn't know you could fp God Press after Level 2 grab? I thought I posted that once already here somewhere. Maybe it was in the other Rugal thread that seems to have died off now. And stand mp *is* much better anti-air than stand fk. It just comes out way faster and stuffs out more crap. stand fk is good if you like, totally see them coming. Posted by Judgment Day on 02:08:2002 07:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B And stand mp *is* much better anti-air than stand fk. It just comes out way faster and stuffs out more crap. stand fk is good if you like, totally see them coming. Never use Standing MP much as an anti-air, or period once I think about it...is it good on cross-ups? Any other uses for the seldom Standing MP user such as myself? Keep me posted. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 02:09:2002 09:15 AM: Hmm well If you do a God press after a Level 2 Gigatech Pressure and THAT ALREADY DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN A LEVEL 3 then adding another level 1 Genocide heaven after the godpress follow-upw ould be too sweet?? BTW sorry JD But I DO find the standing MP to be slightly better an anti-air than his standing HK since it comes out faster, I still use HK when an opponent is coming down from a 45% angle but that's about it. Posted by Judgment Day on 02:09:2002 09:30 AM: Hey Rugal 3:16...I think my last post came off incorrectly. I should've said right off the bat that the sentence in my previous response was referring to my playing style rather than advice to others. I was curious at the time to see how effective it could be. quote: Never use Standing MP much as an anti-air, or period once I think about it... What I meant to say: I never use Standing MP much as an anti-air, or period once I think about it... Hate the internet sometimes; because what I say comes out the wrong way, ya know? Anyways, I pretty much ignored MP until Mummy's recent post. I tried it out tonight, and this is pretty good stuff. Just in time for tomorrow's tournament... Hopefully I'll get Top 5, and paint the town "R"... Posted by GalzPanic on 02:09:2002 09:40 AM: I use st.mp more than hk. It's better IMO. There definitely is room for st.Hk to use as AA tho. Keep on. Posted by Mummy-B on 02:10:2002 03:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 Hmm well If you do a God press after a Level 2 Gigatech Pressure and THAT ALREADY DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN A LEVEL 3 then adding another level 1 Genocide heaven after the godpress follow-upw ould be too sweet?? BTW sorry JD But I DO find the standing MP to be slightly better an anti-air than his standing HK since it comes out faster, I still use HK when an opponent is coming down from a 45% angle but that's about it. Actually, you can't juggle with a Level 1 Genocide Heaven after the Level 2 Pressure -> fp God Press super cancel. Don't ask me why, but I think it keeps track of juggle hits and since Level 1 only hits 3 times, you need a Level 2 or higher to get another hit in. You only really need the God Press anyway afterward, since you can get another Level quickly and for Rugal, having a Level 2 is more sick than having a Level 3 in a majority of cases. Oh and by the way. A neat little trick I do to people. You know how you can rush people down with Rugal's ADS etc etc? You stagger the different punches to vary the release of it and keep the pressure going for a while, then, out of the blue, just jump straight up and do nothing. Watch how many people either try to block, or try to anti-air you or something. It's open for a free throw or free super combo. And makes them feel dumb as shit. You guys probably know this one already, but I thought I'd just throw it in. Posted by Judgment Day on 02:10:2002 06:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by Judgment Day Anyways, I pretty much ignored MP until Mummy's recent post. I tried it out tonight, and this is pretty good stuff. Just in time for tomorrow's tournament... Hopefully I'll get Top 5, and paint the town "R"... Looks like I got 3rd tonight. The tournament they had was like a Round Robin style between the six finalists. My record was 3-2 against my opponents; my losses were down to the last person, last match, with only 1cm worth of health both times...I could've been undefeated throughout...so close to getting first...yet so far away... oh well. That MP stuff was not coming off like clockwork to me; I'm just so used to Roundhousing...I'll get used to it. So far, I've attended a total of 6 tournaments since CvS2's birth w/the following placements and order: 5th: Wizzards Tournament 3rd: Extravaganza 5 (in Iowa--played Floe and Wes Truelson; good players) 2nd: Hardcore Tournament 7th: Ranking Tournament 9th: Ranking Tournament 3rd: Hardcore Tournament Rugal has definitely held his own for the most part and is responsible for many victories and comebacks. --------------------- So far, with Rugal, I've come across problem characters here and there but resolved them in time. Right now my beef is with Blanka, and I was wondering if anyone has anything they'd like to share on that. Everyone has mentioned a lot of high tier characters, but I haven't seen anything on Blanka as of now. Paint the town "R"... Posted by dQn on 02:11:2002 12:31 PM: Rugal is one of my favorite characters in Cvs2. I like him best as a ratio 1 character because he can take out ratio 2+ characters because of his strong combo (capcom groove). I also think that his crossover medium kick is really deadly and should be used often to pressure your opponent and to land the deadly combo. After crossing over with the medium kick, I usually do a standing medium kick. If that lands then I pull out the combo. If it doesn't land, then I do a crouching short and start over. I have a habit of rushing down with all my characters. I also think Rugal has a good crouching short. Without his fast crouching shorts, he would get rushed really bad. I think the crouching shorts can get him out of certain rushdown situations. I like to use Rugal best in capcom groove as a ratio 1. If you land that combo, it helps eliminate as many characters he can before he dies and you use the next character. Posted by EVIL5150 on 02:12:2002 12:06 AM: I've been having a lot of luck getting genocide heaven to combo of off just about everything. Of course there's the godpress and the ads, but the reflecto beam juggles too. Thus against a non dp, non L3 character you can give them a meaty reflecto beam and juggle the shnap out of them, or deal the appropriate amount of guard damage after they block it. I use hcf+fk, c.lk,c.lk,c.lk,qcf+lp,s.fp. this leaves you in a good position to counter their roll or jump when they try to get out of the corner. Posted by EvilRyu10585 on 02:12:2002 08:33 PM: does rugal have any good combos without supers besides fp or mk into god press and what would be some good strats without meter Posted by Mummy-B on 02:13:2002 05:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by EvilRyu10585 does rugal have any good combos without supers besides fp or mk into god press and what would be some good strats without meter Well, the basic strategy with him is generally to control the match to build meter to land a combo. You build meter so fast and really all you need is Level 1 to start really hurting people. There's a million tools you can use. Pressure with ADS and normals, control from afar with Kaiser Wave... all tactics really involve building meter because you build it so fast with Rugal, it's retarded not to use meter with as much damage as he does and the million ways to land a super. All the tactics are lurking around this thread, just do a little searching through the pages and you can put together something really solid. Posted by Pat the Great on 02:14:2002 06:51 AM: I'm using N-Rugal and I was wondering if anyone has any advice...I'm using s.fp and c.fp and s.mk as pokes, s.mp and s. rk as anti-air, and spend most of the time connecting c.mk xx god press -> level 1 genocide heaven and pressuring with ADS - genocide heaven. If i'm lucky i'll connect the deep j. rk/fp xx l3 gigantic pressure xx l1 genocide heaven. i'm wondering about non-super combos - anything capable of juggling off the god press/ADS? and are there any easy combos off the c. fp? Posted by GalzPanic on 02:14:2002 07:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Pat the Great I'm using N-Rugal and I was wondering if anyone has any advice...I'm using s.fp and c.fp and s.mk as pokes, s.mp and s. rk as anti-air, and spend most of the time connecting c.mk xx god press -> level 1 genocide heaven and pressuring with ADS - genocide heaven. If i'm lucky i'll connect the deep j. rk/fp xx l3 gigantic pressure xx l1 genocide heaven. i'm wondering about non-super combos - anything capable of juggling off the god press/ADS? and are there any easy combos off the c. fp? You can't combo of low fierce, and nothing juggles except G Heaven. If you're in A-groove however, you can activate off a connected ADS. I started to use st.MK as a poke after low shorts. it's coo. Posted by Ben-Ra on 02:14:2002 08:27 AM: This may be a Q already answered(I read this thread months ago), but is the ADS unpunishable? Seems like it is. Posted by hyt on 02:14:2002 03:52 PM: Depending on where you hit your opponent it may be punishable. Try to land it around waist height and below for the best results. Most of the time your opponent won't be able to counter it (other than a DP like move) and you can continue your rushdown. The only problem with the ADS is starting it since your opponent could anticipate you using it and counter it easily with a sj.HP or HK. Posted by Pat the Great on 02:14:2002 04:17 PM: Can the ADS punish early DPs cleanly? I've traded a few times and I think I've connected a few but I'm not sure... Also, it eats fireballs. Too Good. I've tried my Rugal against the CPU for a while and he feels good... the ADS recovers quick enough that if someone tries to retaliate against the blocked ADS you can hit 'em with a level 1 Genocide Heaven if you anticipate it right. It's a pity you can't combo off the c.fp because i connect that thing a lot...oh well Posted by cragum on 02:15:2002 12:14 AM: Personally i think it makes more sense to use c.rk after a blocked ADS, since it doesn't cost any super and will usually take off a load of guard meter, and will block stun em enough for you to get away or continue a blockstring ie: ruppuken then start another ADS. If your gonna use a G Heaven, it makes more sense to do it after they havn't blocked, since if you don't time it right and they block, they can make you eat a super on your way down. I think the ADS will probably trade rather than take out an early DP, since it's got that picky hitbox, and the new RC crap probably doesn't help. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 02:15:2002 09:17 AM: I need help, there's a Rugal user better than I am and he just (believe or not) TOTALLY TRASHED the tough Sagat opponent I was always fighting to improve himself (guessed he must have lived in Sagat land to get THAT used to it) and I tried my C/N Rugal against his A-Rugal and I'm totally screwed. thing is he builds the entire A meter faster than I do as far as dishing out a good CC is concerned, If I do not do any offensive options and just refer to building the meter he'll simply just inch my his way towards me and land his CC in may ways, the only thing I can do is just go as far as a Level 2 but then punishing mistakes would only go down about 60 percent which isn't enough for the damage he does to me, also one thing he has and I don't (aside from the standing MP and HK) is a good anti-air (via CC) of course.. something lacking in C-Rugal, and in most cases against him I REALLY NEED to jump on him a lot, if I try to mimic his tactics he just knows how to counter them. BTW is P-Rugal any good? Posted by water on 02:15:2002 05:12 PM: BTW is P-Rugal any good? Well the question really is, can you parry consistently? If yes, then P-Rugal can be pretty good. It gives him a solid anti-air and gives him more opportunities to land his big combos. His short jump roundhouse XX genocide cutter/heaven is a good combo to use. I personally prefer him with a run since it allows for a rushdown game. I also like more access to supers. But he is not bad in p-groove if you can parry well. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 03:14:2002 04:27 AM: I can't seem to connect the Fierce godpress after the level 2 Gigatech Pressure. do you have to do it slowly or Immediately OR another strenght.. BTW I can't see why the Genocide cutter shouldn't combo because if you ever cancel the Level 2 G-Pressure into a Godpress the Juggle count will be reset to zero and since Genocide cutter has a Juggle potential of 3 then it should hit... But it doesn't what gives.. BTW has anyone tried low forward xx Level 2 G-Pressure? it looked badass!! Hmmm as an anti-air does Level 2 G-Heaven super cancel into Roundhouse Genocide Cutter work? Posted by cragum on 03:15:2002 12:50 AM: I think the Genocide cutter doesn't combo because it's a really bad move. I wish it did (then i'd ADS to GC every chance i got) but for some reason it just doesn't. I personally think Rugal's best anti-air is simply not being there when they try to hit.(dodge, roll, run, dash, whatever). Some stuff i screwed around with.... It seems to me that while some characters are masters of cornering and can't do anything after they corner, and Rugal seems to have the opposite problem. He has a hard time cornering, and kicks ass vs cornered opponents, buffering everything he throws into genocide heavens(i love S-groove for that) Amazingly enough, even though ruppuken to godpress is a "training mode combo", it actually seems to happen often enough for me vs cap or n grooves. they try to parry or roll the ruppuken, and get caught by the godpress. or get hit by both if they're stupid. i dunno if anybody noticed this yet, but you can c.rk to genocide heaven. Posted by Mummy-B on 03:15:2002 01:13 AM: quote: Can the ADS punish early DPs cleanly? I've traded a few times and I think I've connected a few but I'm not sure... Also, it eats fireballs. Too Good. I've tried my Rugal against the CPU for a while and he feels good... the ADS recovers quick enough that if someone tries to retaliate against the blocked ADS you can hit 'em with a level 1 Genocide Heaven if you anticipate it right. It's a pity you can't combo off the c.fp because i connect that thing a lot...oh well Air Dark Smasher will cleanly punish any non-RCed DP move as long as your opponent has gone through roughly 25% of thier DP animation and Rugal is already descending with the "fireball." Also, don't abuse the ADS as a pressure tactic. Any character with a relatively solid c.fp can completely stuff it near the bottom of ADS. I usually only Tiger Knee it or use it after I've gotten someone in the corner, and I stagger the button strengths. quote: I can't seem to connect the Fierce godpress after the level 2 Gigatech Pressure. do you have to do it slowly or Immediately OR another strenght.. BTW I can't see why the Genocide cutter shouldn't combo because if you ever cancel the Level 2 G-Pressure into a Godpress the Juggle count will be reset to zero and since Genocide cutter has a Juggle potential of 3 then it should hit... But it doesn't what gives.. Yeah, I have the same problem sometimes as well and I've been doing that combo forever. The timing is tricky - you don't do it immediately after the Level 2 is finished, you have to wait a very tiny second then do a fierce God Press. The way is to judge by the skull flame you get at the end - as soon as it *nearly* dissapeared, then fp God Press. If you get it once and understand the timing that one time, you'll be able to recreate it with practice. I land that combo as least once every match with Rugal, and I still miss it like 1/4 of the time. So don't feel bad. Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 03:15:2002 06:17 AM: the only bastardly time for Rugal comes when your opponent knows what he's capable of.. hence they turtle.. I have a problem against this shoto guy who distances himself about three to four acharacters away and do hadoukens, If I jump a forward will be stuffed by the crouch fierce,a jump roundhouse has slow start-up so he can meet me air to air, If I roill it's a perfect timing for a crouch forward buffered into level 2 shinkuu+super cancelled Hurricane Kick. If I jump back he'll jump forward so that a 45% angle flying forward would trade with my standing strong AA.. When he's using Ryo it ain't fair when he does his aerial Koouken trap (when I roll he does the Ryukoranbuu) and a full screen Ground Koouken trap (when I jump over a koouken he'll do the Ranbu as an AA) and I can't use the Gigatech pressure in the same manner except if he'll land at about two characters away (Three would be too far away) and with Rugal's big size it's hard to move around.. which makes him need the run.. but then he also NEEDS the C-Groove combo.. I guess the trade-off still isn't enough. I wonder if ya guys have seen a similar problem. amyway his jumping forward has decent air to air priority and fast start-up (but can be stuffed by ground normal AA's) while his air roundhouse has GOOD air to ground priority but has a VERY SLOW start-up but wins over most ground normal AA's normal move wise I sometimes try to play him like I would with Yamazaki.. I mean use Crouch Fierce for Yama's standing Roundhouse (although the speed difference and the frame spent for crouching makes it less effective) Standing strong for Yama's own standing strong to snuff 45 degree-ers standing forward for Yama's own standing forward to prevent low footies and that's just that... Posted by cragum on 03:15:2002 06:31 AM: Rugal 3:16 : Sounds to me like you need to jap ruppuken, reflect or kaiser wave more often. people said he was a zoner because it suits him well, even if that isn't how you play. (i used to get screwed by fireballers, simply because i tried to go around rather than play the game he's better than others at). Wierd Note: The Kaiser wave seems to start at the tip of Rugal's hands, so he can throw it out and get hit by one coming his way, so you should throw it ealier than you would a reppuken Posted by Mummy-B on 03:16:2002 01:15 AM: Rugal 3:16, it sounds like you're trying to attack the shit out him and it's not working. Why are you trying to attack like hell? Back off and play his game. If he gets four character spaces out, get out farther and zone him. He'll come to you eventually. Also, if he wants to keep that spacing consistent, he'll open himself up somehow with forward movement, whether it's a spin kick, roll, dash, run or jump. Depending on your Groove, you can short jump foward him as well. You may also Run and roll. You'd be surprised how much this scrubby tactic works. You'd also be surprised how scrubby Roll -> Level 2 pressure catches people as well. If he's catching out of a roll with a crouch foward, take a couple steps back and you should be able to roll in and nail him with a Level 2 no problem. I do it against Haohmaru alot... And I advise against c.fp used like Yamazaki's stand fierce kick. There's a reason why you stand fk with Yamazaki so much, it's because it's that good - Rugal's c.fp is not, it's got not good start up and bad recovery as well. The only pokes I really use personally are c.foward, stand fp, stand fk, stand strong anti-air, and c.fk. Posted by cragum on 03:16:2002 01:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by Rugal 3:16 with Rugal's big size it's hard to move around.. which makes him need the run.. but then he also NEEDS the C-Groove combo.. I guess the trade-off still isn't enough. I wonder if ya guys have seen a similar problem. He doesn't NEED the C-Groove combo, since he's got different versions of it in all the other grooves as well. Here are the ones i know: C: j.rk, s.fp, fp.godpress, lvl 2 genocide heaven, cancel to fp.ADS lvl 1 genocide heaven. --or c.sk x2, lev2 genocide heaven, cancel to fp.godpress, lvl 1 genocide heaven A: cross up- mk, c. mp XX fp godpress, jump and activate CC. j. fp, j.fp XX godpress, godpress X n (till meter is low), gigantic pressure. notes- the rhythm of the godpress has to be exact to link one to another. S: j.rk s.fp lvl3 gigantic pressure lvl1 genocide heaven. N: break stock, c.sk x 3, lvl 3 gigantic pressure, lvl 1 genocide heaven K: rage mode, j.rk s.fp fp.god press, lvl 3 genocide heaven Posted by Rugal 3:16 on 03:19:2002 05:58 AM: Hmm I tried throwing out Repps (Reppuken) at 3/4 of a screen away and it worked for working some space but at a 45 degree drop the shotos flying forward would trade with Rugal's standing MP and HK.. Whenevr I get a jump-in opp I tend to Qcf(slowly)+MK while hitting them deep, then during their reel stun a careful DF, D+MK, DB, B+HP if I made a boo boo I get the godpress out instead followed by a G-Heaven.. If I'm sucessful I get a Gigatech pressure. But as Rugal I never really try to jump-in (Heck I never jump at all) Mixing up ADS timing is kinda Useless at where I play because even the shortest delay(Jab version) could mean Instant jump fierce bait so what less if it was a fierce (with longer lag). I now have a habit of expecting a roll-in with a low forward (To godpress) instead of low shorts (to G-Heaven) but I think it's variety. Sagat REALLY doesn't seem to be a problem nowadays as i am SO USED to fighting against him.. still with Respect to Sagat and sagat players I would say the Match is in Sagat's advantage but not by that much.. as Mummy said Level 2 G-Pressure beats the crouching fierce so I just carefully motion QcF,QcB every now and then.. also Sagat tends to get rushdown whenever Rugal (C-Rugal) hits him with the near 90 percent combo (with Rugal's life still plenty of course) and IMO this is an advantage for Rugal(against a Rushdown Sagat).. Personally as of now I'm having more trouble beating Bison and Yamazaki MUCH more than Sagat. Posted by The real chi on 03:20:2002 02:39 AM: This is the ultimate Proof that Geese is Ultimately much better than Rugal. quote: Originally posted by Margalis Margalis’ Geese defenses. Geese is better than Rugal IMO for the following reasons: (Better than Yamakazi as well) Low roundhouse is really fast, good range, bufferable. You can do low rh->fireball and hit someone if they do the tech get-up. (You maybe can do hcb+k as well, but I don't risk it) Lots of good other normal moves, including low fierce, far fierce, far rh, low forward, stand forward, low strong, etc. Air to air normals are also ver good, jumping rh is super fast. Towards + fierce is great. High priority, very meaty, great damage, bufferable. Good crossup and good easy crossup combos. (low jab, stand fierce, hcb+kick) Damage off of a combo is nice but the question is how do you land that combo? If you have no crossup or tricks or whatever it doesn't really matter how much damage your best combo does. Geese specials aren't very good but specials are not the point of Geese. Just get in their face and mix them up. In a game with rolls, CCs, parries, etc having zoning fireballs like Rugal isn't such a big deal unless you have something to back them up when you get close, and Rugal really doesn't. Geese air fireball is decent to throw out every once is while to mix things up and frustrate your opponent, get them to jump foolishly or roll at the wrong time, but it isn't a major tool. #1: How often is Rugal going to be in proper crossup range compared to Geese? Geese has one of the best low rh in the game, and he has his jab counter and his kick throw. #2: Who can't get link a good combo under the best cirumstances? Replace "Rugal" with basically any character and "clothesline" with some other special or super. The question is how often do they get to take advantage of that. If Geese is bulldogging he gets a lot of opporunities for that. The same might be said of say Kyo (?) or Benimaru. By comparison Yamakazi can combo off a jab or short but you aren't going to see it too often. How did you get right next to me and in a situation where I'm not just content to block? #3: Assuming they aren't in P, K, or S groove, this is true. #4: true of every character. #5: If the person times their anti-air properly if you hit them clean you were most likely too high up to combo when you land. When I'm playing someone with good special move AA I do the AA early so that they have to attack early to avoid trading. This is pretty basic stuff. Lots of characters have good jumping attacks, this doesn't give them free combos, especially against the all powerful "block" technique. In high levels of play combos are rare unless there is some set-up. And a "set-up" is not a high priority jumping attack... Now this comes from Margalis, a credible poster to your eyes so you won't have to take my word for it. Posted by Mummy-B on 03:20:2002 02:51 AM: chi we don't care. this isn't a geese versus rugal thread. it's a rugal is good thread. no matter what you say, it stays that away. kinda like your strange mentality of having to have the last possible word. i don't care if geese had an unblockable infinate combo. fact of the matter is, even if all that was posted was true, you didn't come up with it yourself. so you still don't know anything. nothing has changed. take it somewhere where someone gives a shit. All times are GMT. The time now is 11:48 PM. Show all 121 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.